I know I am but I'm going to do it anyway!

[mytetherisending]

DD2 is now 6mths, has been bf on demand mostly and is fully weaned on 3 meals with desserts, juice from a cup and the occasional snack. She is still demanding night feeds which I feel she shouldn't need if she took good feeds at 10 and 230. Instead she faffs with these and wants milk during the night. I have now decided to quit breast feeding as she will not take bottles- so it is all bottles or none iyswim. I hope that being able to see how much she takes during the day and a gentle prod to take more will reduce night feeding. I have dusted off the GF book which I used with dd1 (and who has only had a handful of disturbed nights since 3mths!) in the hope that the routine will get me some modicum of sleep. I am knackered.

I know it is unreasonable to give up bf for the sake of my sleep, however, dd1 is constantly tired (2.9mths) and is behaving awfully because of it. The baby disturbs her sleep every night

I just needed to vent sorry! Grrr to all those people who say babies get their own pattern and start sleeping eventually- I can't wait til 'eventually' happens!

VVV 'a few weeks sleep' isn't much, dd2 is now 6mths old

Yes, and if she's only just sleeping better now, it didn't make a blink of difference weaning her

Apologies as I haven't read the whole of this thread but I just want to put my tuppence worth in.

I have 3 DCs.

DD1 was excellent, slept through from being a few months old (tis a long time ago so can't remember exactly)

DD2 was great too, slept through from about 5 months.

DS is 13 months old and hasn't slept through yet. He ends up in bed with us every night otherwise none of us would get any sleep at all.

All 3 of them were formula fed. All 3 of them weaned at roughly the same time (DD1 slightly earlier as that was the guidelines way back then) on exactly the same foods.

My point is, (yes I think I have one ), that it doesn't matter how they are fed, or when or what they are weaned on. If they aren't great sleepers, then nothing ime is going to make a huge difference to that.

Incidentally, DS is the best eater out of all of them. Maybe it's a boy thing?

Celestialteapot weaning wasn't the point of the thread. Go back and read the op and threads. I weaned because of the amount I needed to feed, not for sleep. I have decided to put her on ff because then I will know how much milk she takes, can look at guidelines for amounts for her age and decide if she is taking enough in the daytime. Before ff I kept feeding her at night because she refused to bf in the day, she is now taking ff during the day and on 2 consecutive nights has slept better because I now don't feel she needs feeding every time she wakes up. She will now be settled back by just swaddling and hand on her chest.

BTW she is well above the top centile so getting more than enough calories

Wezzle, I agree that on their own weaning/ff don't make a difference. I did a tame version of cc from very early with dd1, she slept from 8wks. I couldn't parent dd2 the same due to demand feeding in those early weeks and the fact that if she cried at all she woke up dd1.

Point being that we never treat all our children exactly the same iyswim.

I did the same with DD2 (tame CC) didn't need anything with DD1 but DS is just a different kettle of fish!!

I'm hoping that when he goes into his own bed, which is going to be sooner rather than later, we might turn a corner [hopeful].

I have read the thread, Tori, thanks.

TCT if you have read the thread please stop going over old ground/points that have already been answered earlier.

I think it's all been answered with your "I don't believe in research" and your free admittance that you know you're being unreasonable, but you're going to do it anyway.

"I have decided to put her on ff because then I will know how much milk she takes, can look at guidelines for amounts for her age and decide if she is taking enough in the daytime."

The guidelines on the tin are just guidelines. Some babies take less and some more.

I bet you the issue of exactly how many ounces of milk a bf baby was getting was never an issue before formula was invented. The people who make formula have tried to use this as a selling point to push artificial milk over breastmilk: "Now you can know exactly how much milk your baby is drinking!". We worry about numbers instead of looking at our babies and using our instincts and our common sense to tell us whether they're thriving and growing.

Why would you have any concerns anyway about how much your baby is feeding if she's well above the top centile?

For what it's worth, I appreciate you can sometimes get a situation where a baby will breastfeed more and more at night, and (sensibly on their part) less and less during the day. I've had this with all three of mine. The answer is to cut down on the night feeds, and there are lots of ways of doing this. As soon as you stop feeding so much at night they start to fill themselves up during the day and it all balances out. It's not necessarily 'snap your fingers and it's done' easy but it's usually do-able and not too agonising.

Sorry if I'm repeating but haven't read the whole thread - too long. Sounds like a sleeping problem & nothing to do with b/f, f/f per se. She isn't waking from hunger, just habit IMHO. My DD b/f just over 12 months, started solids 6 months but dropped night feeds long before the b/f stopped. Went to a sleep clinic with her @ 5 months & her sleep issues (mainly daytime TBH)were sorted within a few days of consistency & perseverence. Night waking was a case of not offering b/f through the night but not leaving her to cry just offering other types of comfort - patting & shushing mainly. Sure others have said it but can you send your partner to deal with it so b/f not an option. Can your older child sleep in your bed for a few nights whilst you tend to crying baby so DD1 not disturbed.

I'm hoping your nights have continued to go well.
One more thing I thought of - it might be worth monitoring how much sleep she gets in the day. For dd and ds, in the early days of sleeping through, they both have seemed to need a particular amount of sleep during the day - too much/too little and they've woken up at night. As tallulahbelle says, nothing to do with food but more to do with sleep issues. Once they've become established and are regularly going through the night, it then seems to matter less how much they've slept in the day.
Just a thought...

Hi nonedomesticgodess thanks, yes we have now had 3 nights where she has gone to bed at 7pm, dreamfeed while still asleep at 2230 and sleeping through to 7am. I definately think bottle feeding has brought more structure. Her naps are now exactly as per GF whether in the pram, on sofa, travel cot in living room or in her room, she sleeps without any rocking etc, just swaddle and put wherever I want her to go to sleep. Naps religiously since I stopped bf at 9-945 and 1230-1430hrs. If she goes wrong with them all I have to do now is swaddle and she will have a nap if she is tired Fantastic week! No cc needed which is also great!

Tallulahbelle I agree it is a sleep problem (was a sleep problem) but I felt it was a problem with a lack of daytime structure for milk feeds and thus made a cycle of feeding at night because not enough during the day. By ff I know what she takes which then gives me the confidence to refuse night feeds because I know she isn't hungry. I still give a bf top up in the afternoon so she does still get a little amount of bf per day.

fabsmum I tried DH going in to her, she would scream at him for up to 2hrs if I didn't go in and feed her, she knew I was in the house. We tried this for about a week. Every night she screamed. Every day I had then to cope with a very tired, aggressive, badly behaved dd1 (totally out of character). I now have 2 contented children

Glad it's all worked out for you. I would ditch the dreamfeed too - never found them to make any difference. Just an aside. Obviously you're happy with way things are.

Hi talulabelle, we can't drop the dreamfeed atm, she had a very small one but woke at 4am. Managed to get her back to sleep without feeding though, but with it she doesn't wake, so I think she still needs it. Once she has done a few nights of only taking an once or 2 then I will stop it.

Just wanted to update and say I made the right decision. DD2 now sleeping 7-7. On;ly had sips at the dreamfeed last night and the night before so trying without tonight. Wish me luck!

mytetherisending... I posted quite a lot on this thread earlier, mostly in your defence!!!

I am so pleased that things are working out for you, and thanks so much for updating.

The night feeding pattern you seem to be using is exactly the way i did things.

I too, slowly reduced the dream feed until they were down to an ounce and then i bit the bullit and left it out. Never looked back.

Good luck tonight. let me know how it goes. Good nightime sleep is so valuable for all of you.

thanks BB I remember you and know you defended me, thanks for that . LOL because even if she wakes DH will be dealing with it as I have had wine because he went out last night!! This morning dd2 didn't surface til 715

'it' being the waking up, not dd2!

I too am a little wine happy tonight. Think it's the x factor vibe!!

< tops up glass >

It really is amazing the difference good sleeping habits make. A much happier mummy and daddy. Time to open the wine, eat a meal, go out etc etc....

You have done very well to achieve this without cc. It took me just less than a week to get there, and i did use cc.

PMSL at the x-factror vibe! Thats exactly what happened with 1 mahoosive wine glass that holds a bottle to save topping up in the middle Went out for a lovely curry last weekend safe in the knowledge that if the babysitter did the dream feed then we wouldn't get up til 7am Bliss!

You see, and all those posters who disagreed vehemently are the ones who can't get out.

I do honestly believe a happy mummy makes a happy baby. Mine are both a complete sleeping joy.