Need to vent- sister smoked throughout pregnancy and now baby is in special care.

[ILikeYourSleeves]

I wasn't sure where to post this and it's probably a vent rather than an AIBU but I have been thinking about this all weekend and need to vent somewhere. My sister had a baby girl on Saturday (her first) and she is unfortunately in the special care ward in an incubator She stopped breathing when she was born and had to be resuscitated and had oxygen for the first day of her life. She is also having to be fed through a tube and has a drip. She is getting better but I feel so sorry for the wee lamb and the difficult start she has had. I am obviously aware that it's a difficult time for my sister, she is separated from her baby and is worried if she will be OK. But I guess I am posting here due to the many mixed emotions I am feeling as my sister smoked heavily throughout her pregnancy. I can't help but wonder if the baby is having breathing and lung problems because of the smoking and that's making me feel pretty angry towards my sister. She said she was going to give up when she found out she was PG but she didn't, despite me trying to encourage her, pointing out the risks etc. Yes I totally understand it's an addiction (I am an ex-smoker myself from years ago) but to still smoke when PG really gets me. I spoke to her about it again only a few weeks ago as she said she didn't think she would breastfeed because she would still be smoking when the baby is here (!), and I asked her if she actually wanted to quit to which she said 'no'. I find that quite unbelieveable, it's not that she wants to quit but can't, but more that she enjoys smoking and doesn't actually want to stop.

What really got me I think though was that after we gazed at the little baby (also low birthweight & 2 weeks early) covered in wires and tubes, and having a tube forced up through her nose and down her throat, my sister and her bloke then went outside the maternity ward for a fag.

I didn't say anything to her despite screaming inside as I know she has so much on her plate anyway with her baby being so poorly, but aararrrarrrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!! I just think it's very selfish and would have thought that seeing your baby all hooked up would be enough to make you think it's really time to quit. Yes she will be stressed and is perhaps using cigs to cope but I am so angry- AIBU???? I'm sure some of you will think I need to butt out and keep my opinions to myself but fair enough if an adult wants to kill themselves with fags but when you see a tiny defenseless baby who can't have that choice, well it's truly awful. They are going to keep smoking at home too despite SIDS research.

If she isn't going to stop smoking its even more important that she does breastfeed. If she doesn't she is lumping two SIDS risks on top of each other, and two respiritory infection and asthma risks on top of each other, and two ear infection risks as well. Seriously, if she can't/won't stop smoking then she needs to breastfeed.

But to smoke in the house, well,

YANBU at all.

Your sister was selfish and now, possibly, her child is suffering because if it. I cannot comprehend why anyone would place their child at such risk, and to continue smoking around the baby (when it's home) is mind-bogglingly crap.

THose of you getting all squawky about how eeevil it is to smoke (or drink, or drive, or go to work, or eat soft cheese) while pregnant - have you just forgotten the number of pregnancies which are unplanned and, for the first few weeks, not known about by the PG woman? It is not possible to guarantee a healthy baby and genetics and random unanticipated incidents account for as many if not more cases of sick newborns.

although i could've known ye by your posts on this thread.

I admit I've skimmed the thread rather than read it in detail, but has anyone really suggested that it's evil to smoke?!!

I think it's a strange idea to attach a moral judgement to smoking. However it is selfish to smoke when pregnant or with a baby in the house. That's fairly obvious!

Of course no one can guarantee a healthy baby. But does that make it acceptable to put your baby at risk? The doctors never found a reason why my baby was prem. The weeks she spent in special care, having tubes down her nose and injections and god knows what were dreadful. I really cannot understand how anyone could put their child are risk of this through smoking.

Well, as ninky so cleverly pointed out, women put their unborn children at risk in lots of different ways. It's just a question of degree.

I smoked for some of DS1's pregnancy. At first, I thought 'my mother smoked through our pregnancies and we're both fine, so how bad can it be?'. Then I got seriously fed up with other people's condemnation so I continued to smoke as a fuck-you gesture (childish in the extreme, of course). Then I stopped when I was about six months pregnant. About four weeks later my mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer and told that she was not expected to live long enough to see DS1 born. At that point, I started smoking again, pretty much out of pure misery.

This is not to say that smoking while pregnant is big or clever, or that in an ideal world we shouldn't all work to avoid risks to our unborn children. But life is complicated, and people take all sorts of irrational decisions.

FTR: Thing is, while no one is suggesting that smoking or drinking (or stress, whether it's caused by being a Selfish Career Woman or just by being driven mad by conflicting advice on how to behave while PG) is good for foetuses/babies, a risk is not a certainty and people, at varying levels of consciousness, assess the risks and decide which ones are acceptable. Like, people are frightened of going on planes in case they crash but not frightened of driving when the percentage risk of dying in a road accident is MUCH higher than that of dying in a plane crash: someone whose parents/aunties/cousins/grandparents all or nearly all smoked and whose family history contained no sick premies would be less concerned about smoking in pregnancy.

YABVVVVU.
And until you feel the pain of having a baby in special care, and the heart ache at not being able to hold and care for your baby yourself, until then keep your opinions to your self and help your sister by showing her love not condemnation.
By the way my ds was in special care for 5 months and on O2 for a year, so I know how she is feeling.

solidgoldbrass - people who don't know they are pregnant is something completely different. They are not purposely putting their DC at risk! I smoked before I found out I was preg with DD, does that mean it would have been ok to carry on once I knew? And no, you can't garantee a healthy baby but surely you should give them the best chance?

strummer - as far as we are aware the op has kept her opinions to herself and showed her sister every support. That's precisely why she vented here - because she can't there!

YANBU i would feel the same.
My DS was in SCBU for 12 weeks,i dont smoke but do torture myself that i may have done SOMETHING to cause what happened .
If i had smoked i would have hated myself in case that caused it.
So i suppose i kind of agree that your sister needs support not criticism however cross it makes you.
She MUST know theres a chance that her smoking caused this and the guilt must be awful.

strummer, did you smoke? did you keep smoking after the baby was born? i'm fascinated by how a mother can poke a nicotine-stinky hand into an incubator, tbh. i saw some do it. i could smell them, presumably so could the baby. and they know that smoke on the clothes and body goes into a baby's lungs, i'm sure i read somewhere.

SGB and Policywonk you are both right about how people are not rational about risk.

People consistently underestimate the risks associated with smoking (in pregnancy and in general) because smoking is so common.

But where we do disagree fundamentally - I think - is in the message that we give about them.

The inconvenient truth is that some women and babies are suffering the most horrendous outcomes because of exposure to tobacco smoke. We do nobody any favours by pretending that it's not a problem, or that smoking's essentially the same as eating pate, or getting a car when pregnant.

Life is all about weighing up risks. We do it every minute of the day, whether at a subconscious level or not.

I still think there's a hell of a difference between weighing up the risk of getting in a car or on a bus(yes, there's a small risk or being injured, but the gain is that you need to actually travel somewhere) and the risk of smoking (risk of damaging your child, gain is ....????? not sure I know the answer to that one)

YANBU

That poor baby.

Oh no firepile, I completely accept that smoking while pregnant is probably one of the worst things you can (voluntarily) do. It's one of the worst things anyone can do for their health, full stop. I'm just saying that it's on the continuum of risk, so those posting outraged 'How can anyone do that??!!' responses might understand a bit better if they think about some of the things they did while pregnant that were also less than ideal (although not as bad as smoking).

I don't smoke so it wasn't a factor for me. But, dh did at the time. Although when you have 6 to 8 large O2 bottles in your house you soon stop.
But, I did not condemn him then and I wouldn't now, it is an extremly stressful time of your life.
Your sister needs a friend at this moment in her life.

FWIW I would be fuming if you were my sister having these feelings.
I smoked during both my pregnancies- babies were 9lb12oz and 10lb respectively (I smoked more with the second btw) I am still smoking and breast feeding dd2. I feel crap about it but have been trying to quit using gum for 5yrs! What people say and mean regarding enjoying smoking are different matters, people say they enjoy it when they fail to quit. They don't enjoy it usually, just can't stop so use that as a get out clause.
Smoking can predispose women to prem babies and low birth weight but IT IS NOT THE ONLY CAUSE. To assume it is the cause is niaive and if you want to maintain a good relationship with your sister I suggest you empty your head of this completely judgemental attitude!

However, I would be judgemental if she then goes on to smoke in confined spaces with the baby, such as indoors, in the car etc. There is IMO no need to do that.

If you have smoked you will know that stress does promp you to have a fag for the calming effects. You need to support your sister, not slate her.

Best wishes to baby and I hope she gets better soon xx

Oh and with ds it was pre eclampsia at 27 weeks.

Actually my MWs advised me not to stop and said that it would stress the baby if I couldn't quit immediately, just said try to cut down.

The fact that a significant proportion of pregnant women smoke shows a. how horribly addictive cigarettes are (yes, I know some of you can say 'I gave up the moment I knew I was pregnant' but there are plenty of people who struggle) and b. that people aren't rational, cold, calculating machines.

If we were, it would be simple. Smoking increases the risk of all sorts of nasty things. Of course no-one would smoke if it was a simple matter of rational choice.

It's like any other public health message - people know they should eat five portions of fruit and veg a day, but the average is two to three. People know they should be taking more exercise, but on average we don't do enough.

Fascinating field of study. Clearly exhortation alone is not enough to change behaviour. It's just not that easy, sadly.

OP, I do hope your niece does very well indeed and can leave special care asap.

solidgoldbrass I have a perfect example of what you said regarding genetics. My friend has 3 dds, she smoked with dd1 and dd2 and breastfed. DD3 she gave up smoking before concieving and dd3 has cystic fibrosis

If anyone close to me smoked during pregnancy, I would clobber her with a stick.

Thank goodness you have MN to vent, I would be bloody furious too. But you can't say anything to her and so feel free to rant any time you like. I cannot imagine anyone could see that tiny baby knowing that your sister smoked heavily and not have mixed feelings. Don't listen to anyone telling you not to be judgemental, most people would be but it is futile and a waste of energy and nothing you could say to the one person you're angry with.

Anyone who really wants to give up smoking can, and I mean anyone. You either really want to or you don't.