To tell my DB about gov guidelines for sleeping in same room as baby when he said baby would be sleeping in its own room.

[neolara]

My brother is expecting his first child any time now. He doesn't really know anything about babies yet although I think he will be a fantastic dad when it comes along.

He said that the baby would be sleeping in a separate room with the maternity nurse and would stay there when the maternity nurse leaves after 5 weeks. I rather cautiously mentioned that the current guidelines are that a baby sleeps in the same room as someone else for the first six months because of the risk of cot death. He said he didn't know that, but then went quiet on me, which means he was cross and wanted me to but out!

Some close friends of his who recently had a baby have had the baby in a separate room from birth and I think he just thinks that is what "everyone" does. I also think that he was probably annoyed that his big sister was trying to tell him how to bring up his baby. And I can see how that would be bloody irritating. I tried to back-track (e.g. it's your baby and obviously you can have it sleep wherever you want) but actually I do think he should at least make an informed decision.

I suppose it comes down to how much do you think it is reasonably to interfere in how others in your family bring up their children. Do you think I should have said something, or left it to the health visitor / midwife?

I'm a light sleeper, but I had her in with me so I could respond to her when she woke, I fed her when she needed. I didn't wait for someone to notice she was crying, wake up, get out of bed and give her to me by which point she's too upset to feed and even when she's finished I can't sleep because my heart's still pounding from being woken up from crying. For such light sleepers we probably got more sleep when she was in with us in the early days than ever. Even if we hadn't have had sleep in the early days of her being home we wouldn't have done everything differently, what's the phrase: "this too will pass". Not saying that co-sleeping is the only way just trying to explain myself.

OK, they may change their view and take the baby in with them, but it's not their plan.

YANBU to mention it - however IMO you HAVE to leave it at that. if they listen then fine if not then not your place to say anything else.

Totally agree with you Tink. Babies are supposed to wake you up and i remember being knackered for those first few weeks, but for me, i'd never want or expect anyone else to take over that role (apart from OH that is!)

I used to love the feeling of waking at odd hours, looking over at my baby and gazing in awe at this little person we created .

We were lucky enough to be able to squeeze her cot next to our bed, so bf was very convenient for me. And as for noisy sleepers? cripes what kind of noise can a baby really make to disturb your sleep?

My dd slept in her own room as soon as she got home from hospital. And I breastfed her for 4 months. And I bonded totally and completely with her. She is not damaged in any way. I was still utterly in love with her and I still am.

Didn't know anything about the guidelines until she was about 2 (tho' maybe they weren't published 4 years ago). If I had, I don't honestly know if I would have done anything different.

And if they want to have a maternity nurse, let them. They'll get some sleep.

Each to their own.

neolara - did he ask? if so I'd say something if not then prob best to leave it to mw/hv.

Had this kind fo thing from my dad's girlfriend (who is lovely has three kids etc) and I too feigned ignorance mainly as it seemed better than throttling her.

not everyone chooses to sleep with their lo in same room for various reasons DESPITE the guidelines

it's not just SIDS i would be worried about.

I would have lesser concerns about parent/child bonding in these crucial early weeks.

Its so important for both parents to bond early with their children - esp the mother - and sticking the poor baby in a separate room with a paid professional from day one is not going to help that process.

Tell them to ditch the maternity nurse, stick the cot in their room and be real parents instead of acting like royalty. Their reward for all this hard work will be a closer relationship with their child.

Sounds like they also need to read all the available childcare literature and fast!

But Tinker, Co-sleeping is against the guidlines too and it works brilliantly for those who chose to do it anyway (hopefully following the co-sleeping guidelines )!

Up to them I'd say. Know people whose baby slept in the their own room from day 1, some with maternity nurses and some not. Has NOT made a blind bit of difference to their relationship/bondong with their child. It worked for them (and they were breastfeeding). They won't know how they feel until it's born anyway. We had DD in our room for 4 months- she then went in the next door room with both doors open and we all slept much better.
They will have read all the guidelines andyway. It's like co-sleeping. They say not to do that but lots of people do and also now say to give dummies but lots of people don't.
Pregnant with 2nd now and have seriously considered a maternity nurse too- will use my mum instead- much cheaper!

Every noise my babies made disturbed me. It was not that they were particularly loud, more that I was perpetually on edge and could not relax enough to go to sleep. Anyway, they are now eight and nine and we all survived the process. I don't think that there is anything wrong with our family bonds. In fact I would say they are quite strong. As I suspect are most parents and children, despite where they slept and what help they had.

It is not fair to make such sweeping generalisations about other people's lives. From what the OP has said the decision to hire a Maternity Nurse was not taken lightly, so I suspect there is more to their family circumstances than meets the eye. We can all only speak from our own experiences - if the OP did as totalmisfit advises I think her relationship with her brother would go swiftly down the pan. I did things differently than my sister (she was more attachment/demand led, and I was more routine) and at no point did she tell me I was doing it all wrong. If she had I would have been upset and angry. Great for a first time parent, I don't think.

It's not like co-sleeping at all.

The evidence on co-sleeping is actually fairly complex - the risks are not the same for everyone. There is some evidence that co-sleeping may protect some babies with against SIDS. Co-sleeping is also - in evolutionary terms, almost universally a normal feature of the mother/infant relationship. It's only in the West in the past 50 years or so that it's become a minority practice. And I suspect if bottlefeeding and early weaning from the breast wasn't ubiquitous in the West then co-sleeping would be a much more common practice than it is now.

Putting a child to sleep in a separate room on the other hand is a very new practice in historical terms, and is an absolute risk for SIDS no matter what else the parents do.

Jem169 - how do you know that the way a child is parented in the early days doesn't make any difference to the bonding experience? You really don't know - surely - given how subtle and complex these things are. As individuals we often find it hard to understand or put into words the exact dynamics of our own relationships with those people who we're closest to, let alone understand those of other people - particularly children, who can't articulate their feelings like adults do.

I think if you compare the roles of maternity nurse and postnatal doula it gives you an interesting perspective on the role of maternity nurses. The role of the doula is to nurture the mother/child dyad and the family as a whole. So she supports the mother with breastfeeding and takes over household tasks to allow the mum to rest and concentrate on getting to know her baby. She prepares nutritious food for the mother and gives attention to her physical recovery from childbirth. A doula might care for the baby for short periods while the mother sleeps, but she would be careful not to come between the mother and her baby.

A maternity nurse on the other hand is employed primarily to care for the baby, and in that sense can't help coming between the mother and the child.

Now I ask you what other mammal would hand their tiny newborn infant over to another female to care for while establishing lactation? It goes totally against instinct and common sense. Having prolonged skin to skin contact between mother and child in the first few weeks after birth increases the mother's levels of oxytocin - helping shrink her uterus down, increase milk production and bond with her child. Separating mother and baby and taking over the practical tasks of changing, feeding and comforting the baby interferes in this basic biological process in a fundamental way.

TTBB, if I had had to co-sleep for the first few months of my babies life I'm pretty sure I would have ended up exhausted, depressed and proably resentful of my DS.
A maternity nurse is NOT necessarily as you describe - I know this from personal experience, And although I wouldn't have a Mat nurse full-time, I certainly think it's a valid choice. In fact in many mamal species, mothering is very much shared, and if the mother can't cope another lactating mother may take over the feeding. Alternativly the mother may just leave her baby to die - so maybe we shouldn't compare oursleves to other mamals to closely?

"fact in many mamal species, mothering is very much shared"

Not in the immediate period after birth when the mother is trying to establish lactation. There's a very clear rule in relation to almost all mammals - try not to disturb the birth process unless absolutely necessary and don't intervene between a mother and her offspring in the first few weeks after birth. Sadly we've lost touch with this shibboleth in relation to humans - maybe one of the reasons so many of us have hideous experiences of birth......

"and if the mother can't cope another lactating mother may take over the feeding"

But we're not talking about bringing in help for the mother when she can't cope. Maternity nurses tend to be booked in advance for the immediate postnatal period while the mother is still trying to establish lactation. And they're often employed by very wealthy people who also have cleaners and other household help.

"Alternativly the mother may just leave her baby to die - so maybe we shouldn't compare oursleves to other mamals to closely?"

Yes - they can lick their own bottoms too........

Doesn't mean that we should entirely ignore the role of instinct when it comes to understanding the behaviour and needs of new mothers and babies.

In any case - nobody's talking about 'having' to co-sleep. I'm just making a case that when we think about the immediate postnatal period and how to help mums and babies establish lactation and recover from the birth, it can help to look at it from this point of view as well.

My friend's maternity nice was a fab woman, the same age as us. She made sure my friend ate well, sat up with her all night when she was feeding her the baby, gave her (and me) lots of tips etc etc. She was there to help and advise, rather than whisk the baby off at every opportunity. This friend also managed to breastfeed far longer and with a lot less pain and trauma than most of the rest of us in our circle of friends because she got lots of support.
OK- I don't know that in 20 years what their bond will be like but they both seem to me to have a pretty normal healthy relationship.
There are plenty of mothers who are with their babies 24/7 who don't bond properly/have dysfunctional relationships later on etc.

Obviosuly she was 'feeding the baby' not 'feeding her the baby'

Just wanted to pop in to say that my brother and his wife had a baby boy this afternoon. Completely brilliant!

As my SIL went into labour about 2 hours after my conversation with my brother, I suspect neither of them spent too long getting annoyed with my comments - too busy with getting the baby out instead.

However, as suggested by many on this thread, I will now keep my advice to myself unless asked.

Juule - what happened to your dd must have been very, very frightening. Thank you for sharing your experience.

TTBB, my point is that how you do it, how I do it and how Mrs Orangutan does it is irrelevant. A Mat Nurse may be an interuption for you and a welcome help for another, just as co-sleeping may work for you and not for me.
As a number of people have said, maternity nurses aren't necessarily an "intervention" between a mother and her baby.

It's against the bed manufacturer sponsored guidelines like the dummy preventing SIDS is endorsed by MAM. The guidelines were written by a company who's only income is from donations, contrary to popular belief they're not Govt. I do find it amusing that each piece of advice they give is sponsored by a relevant company.

I wasn't giving co-sleeping advice, I was talking about being a light sleeper. I'll let others answer about co-sleeping increasing the risks of SIDS.

You shouldn't have said anything. He's old enough to find out whatever he wants and make his own mind up.

And I would be too busy asking him what the heck the maternity nurse is all about.

oh congrats on your nephew!

"fact in many mamal species, mothering is very much shared"

Contrary to popular belief primates are not the mammals we're closest to, not in terms of children at least. The only animals that have their young as immature as we are are marsupials.

And not all marsupials are mamals - I think we're losing the point!

aren't they bubbaluv? the things you learn on mn!

Female marsupials have two vaginas. Just like me

Sorry Tink, I'm a light sleeper too and my experience was completely different from yours. My heart wasn't pounding on being woken (in fact I was often half asleep at both the beginning and the end of the feed) and my babies were never too upset to feed. I often woke up when they were still in grumbling mode and hadn't began to yell in any case. We are all different (and our babies too). You can give general advice using guidelines, but I don't think you can ever say specifically how a particular family's dynamics might in practice work best. Anyway I hope it goes well for this family, that their Maternity Nurse is wonderful and that bonding and feeding go well for them.

ROFL!!!

Noonki, a platypus is a marsupial but lays eggs so not a mamal.

I'm pretty sure that kangaroos would hire maternity nurses if they had the cash - just for some time-out from the kicking!