to be driven nuts by friends who pander to their dc's unreasonable requests?

[deaconblue]

examples from different friends recently
child 1 "I want to wash the baby's neck"
me "sorry darling but dd has a sore neck so only I can wash it"
her mother "don't worry darling you can wash mummy's neck instead"

child 2 " I want to get in the baby's buggy"
me "sorry but she's only just gone to sleep so you can't get in the buggy with her"
his mother "can he get in and I'll push it around so she doesn't wake up"
me "umm no"

"However, we are all entitled to parent how we see fit and should not comment or judge another parent unless it directly affects us."

I really don't agree with this. It's obviously untrue that it's fine for everyone to parent as they see fit, as social services could tell you, and I think it is fine to discuss on other people's parenting if we think it is affecting not just us, but their child. If you raise a very spoilt child who is rude and difficult to their other carers and people in general because of your pandering, people are going to remark on it. (Not withstanding of course that there are children who are difficult for other reasons, SN and so on, and all children have different personalities, I think it is possible to spoil a child by ridiculous pandering and I think a lot of people do it, as the examples on this thread show.)

I know a family who let their 5yo rule the roost - she stays up as late as she likes every night for example, and can do and say what she likes unchecked because her parents think she should be able to "express herself". Not only is the poor girl badly behaved and widely disliked because she can't handle being told no, she is also constantly in a bad mood because she's exhausted because she doesn't get the sleep she needs for her age. That affects the rest of society, and it affects her, detrimentally. Let's be honest, most of us can see raising her this way is not a great idea and most of us have judgey thoughts about some of the things other parents do. It doesn't mean we're perfect, but it's not all bad - thinking about these things and seeing what other people do that we don't agree with probably helps us to learn and make better decisions.

I'm fed up of this "you can't judge other people's parenting" myth. We can, we constantly do, and so does society, social services, courts and judges. And if you read MN you'll see that people who judge their own parents' poor parenting - myself included - are rightly given a lot of support.

So can I judge a parent who bullies or beats their child behind closed doors? Doesn't affect me, but I think I can say it's wrong and shouldn't happen.

Fair point about the context. I think we are very quick to say "there's no wrong way to parent" and "we shouldn't judge other people's parenting", forgetting that in the wider context, that's actually untrue, and we all do it.

But it is also true that unfair and unnecessary judging goes on.

I think you shouldn't judge snapshots. Which is different.

People for example have judged me in the past when ds1 has had a complete meltdown in public- so he screaming, trying to pull me over- I'm clinging onto him with 2 hands (because if he's gone he's faster than me and in front of a car and quite possibly dead). He's 9 now so he draws attention. And I have sometimes heard the mutters and seen the lemon suckers and I really resent it. I resent it because I know that I have done a good job with a severely autistic, non-verbal 9 year old with severe learning difficulties and challenging behaviour. I know that I have coped well and that we manage his behaviour as well as anyone else is able to. I resent being judged by someone whose biggest challenge in the behaviour stakes has been a child as easy as ds2. And I resent being judged by someone who thinks that because ds1 looks 'normal' he therefore should be able to behave 'normally'. I resent being judged by the 'looks normal, can't compute, will act a twat' brigade.

Fair enough to judge if you know the full facts (although I think empathy for people finding it difficult can go a long way). But judging a stranger's parenting ability on a 2 minute snapshot is wrong.

but most of the time you csn't see the sn. so people judge without the full facts.

I do agree that some people pander to their DCs requests too much but would never judge a single occasion as often there is much more going on.

I try to pick my battles and do sometimes give in and let the DCs have what they want but not if it involves screaming tantrums. If they can tell me what they want and why they want it then I might reconsider. [They are now old enough to do this)

DH always says that it is important that the DCs occasionally get the feelign that they have "won" us over. It is good for their self confidence. Plus they see that it is ok to change your mind, it is not losing, it is just accepting someone elses opinion.

I think that's a great way to put it jimjams, the "snapshot". I am sympathetic if I see a stranger with a screaming tantrum on their hands (though my sympathy is strained if I see people hitting their kids) or people I don't know "giving in" - because I know that can be me too. But I do roll my eyes about some of the serial panderers I know, when I know they do it all the time.