to think we would be better off in, a communist society, wealth should be shared

[IAMJIGSAW]

doesn't seem right some folk have so much and some have next to nothing.

what do you think?

[LittleBella]

LOL i remember going to a restaurant in the old DDR and asking for steak. We weren't allowed to have it because we weren't atthe right table. So we asked where the right table was and they pointed at it and there were already people there eating steak. We were sitting at the chicken table. So we had chicken.

I don't recall the passage in Das Kapital saying how important it was to divide the steak and chicken tables....

[DeeRiguer]

i think totalitarianism is better description for the warsaw pact countries tbh
communism was the spin, totalitarianism was the reality, non?

[BitOfFun]

I agree with Dee there - I don't think it turned out anything like what Marx etc intended. The soviet system in Russia was supposed to be made up of workers' councils (that's what soviet means I think) who would make all the decisions democratically. If the soviet leader didn't carry out the workers' wishes they could recall them immediately and put in power someone who did. I think this would be much better than our system of voting in a load of lying scumbags and being lumbered with them for 5 years.

I think because the West tried to bring about the collapse of the new revolution, the Russians centralised everything under Stalin though, and turned as corrupt and power-mad as the system the revolution had replaced.

I don't think real communism has ever been tried in reality -

Thanks for this thread, it has made me think!

[MrsSchadenfreude]

Smallwhitecat (great name, by the way!) - what a small world!

[pigleto]

I am not prepared to share with the likes of Gary Glitter. Communism is a rubbish idea. If there were a capitalist state next door to a communist state and people were free to move between them all the ambitious, bright and hardworking people would move to the communist state and all the sick, elderly and feckless would move to the communist side. There would not be enough idealists to keep the place going. That is why you have to put so much barbed wire around a communist state to keep people in.

[pigleto]

• capitalist side I mean. Sorry.

[littlemisss]

If not a communist society then certainly a more socialist one in which we attempt to reduce the gap between rich and poor, rather than totally eradicate it.

I for one would welcome more progressive taxation to achieve this and certainly wouldn't mind paying more tax myself to achieve it. Although, to be fair, one of the most effective ways of redistributing wealth is through inheritance tax.

[cestlavie]

I remember astro-physicist, novelist and scientist Carl Sagan about how extra-terrestrial civilisations would find all of our current economic and governance systems to be appallingly basic. I'm very much inclined to agree (although sadly I have no answers!)

[hannahsaunt]

I am too tired at the moment to digest all the posts or to think terribly deeply, so apologies in advance but ... I do struggle with the fact that there are lots of extremely hard working people out there, working long hours, doing jobs that need doing to keep society ticking over but are being paid a pittance compared to me. I salute those people who get up every morning to go and empty bins, clean hospitals, serve in school dinner halls, work as a playleader in the children's hospital etc etc. I do feel a need to make society more sharing in whatever economic format that takes (higher minimum wage, more tax credit thingies) to bring about a more equitable life, a more even standard of living.

[G2B]

Me and DP work are arses off (when I'm not on maternity leave). We have next to nothing but I like to think with a lot of hard work eventually we will have. And we'll have earned it.

I don't like the idea of a communist society one bit.

[G2B]

*our.

What a dreadful spelling error by me.

[UpSinceCrapOClock]

Move to Scandinavia - that probably has the closest to the sort of system that you're looking for.

[UpSinceCrapOClock]

Oops, forgot the 'entry fee' for this thread ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[electra]

It's unworkable.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

[Jux]

There was an economist in the 80s (or 70s?) who suggested that everyone in the country should be given £100 a week on attaining age 18. There would be no other state benefits. Payment for work would be taxed at an enormous rate which was how the public sector would be paid for. I can't remember the details, but possibly everyone had to work for a couple of weeks a year or something. If you wanted something special then you worked for a few months or whatever, paid your tax and got the money. Apparently, this was cheaper than trying to run the economic side of the country the way we did then (do now). I've no idea how much £100 a week would be 30 or so years later. Quite possibly more than I have to live on a week now. I know it sounded like luxury to me at the time. Anyone know anything about this?

[nowirehangers]

Pigleto
Quite, why are all the young Poles/Romanians etc coming over here to work? Because capitalism is more advanced than in their countries and they want to reap the benefits
Of course it would be lovely if there were no rich or poor, above us only sky etc etc cue strains of Imagine but people are materialistic and entrepreneurial and the brighter ones will always find ways of acquiring more than their neighbours. Look at communist countries like Cuba or Vietnam where young girls and boys blatantly prostitute themselves to tourists to earn a few more dollars

[ninedragons]

Capitalist systems have a lot more money sloshing around in them. They generate more overall wealth than communist ones do.

In capitalist systems the rich have vastly more, but actually so do the poor, relative to people under communist systems.

[DeeRiguer]

and i dont think this is really a capitalist society anyway
why would we bale out banks (northern rock) and such if it was?

[threekids]

BeHereNow in economic terms though you dont count children or those over the age of retirement as active members of a community.

I am a big believer in capitalism. If we were all looked after by the state then people would not put as much effort into development, without capitalism we would never have had the industrial revolution. As a result of that those who were considered poor were able to make more in monetary terms than those who did not adapt. Even though they still didnt earn as much as the wealthy at the time (generally from inherited wealth) they still earned more than before. Diversification as a result of capitalism.

Though i do hate major inequality in society such as the privileged few getting on in life as a result of their heritage. I think hard work pays off and the desire to keep up with the Joneses makes us work a bit harder. The multiplier effect is very impressive. Though there are clearly some definate social devisions which is sad.

[lilolilmanchester]

was going to write "great idea in principle, but read Animal Farm" - but was beaten to it. Seriously, if you haven't read it, you should.... and then read modern history of communist societies. I totally agree with your ideals, but it doesn't seem to work in practice

[Tortington]

"As a result of that those who were considered poor were able to make more in monetary terms than those who did not adapt"
oy vey, seriously - you think that the industrial revolution - in its time was any beter than serfdom? forced labour of serfs on the fields of landowners, in return for protection and the right to work on their leased fields.... or then the right to work in their factories and pay rent on their houses that they built for the workers and the children who then worked at age 5 in mills
the babies in the basements shut up with opium.

aye much better this industrial revolution was

[threekids]

Not not at all, just that the industrial revolution changed the face of the world. It wasnt right and it wasnt wrong, and people suffered but people also benefited.

[Tortington]

you could sY THT about anything