to think we would be better off in, a communist society, wealth should be shared

[IAMJIGSAW]

doesn't seem right some folk have so much and some have next to nothing.

what do you think?

Exactly, AMIS. Anyone who could, worked on the black. Private doctor's appointments, teachers giving private lessons at home etc etc.

Roseabilty - so, no doubt, did Marx and Lenin!

A very good book which gives you an idea of the madness of the times is "Stalin's Polish Puppets" by Teresa Toranska. The high up party member trying to justify her cleaning lady living in a cupboard under the stairs is interesting reading...

Just reading Child 44 (Tom Smith)

Set in The Soviet Union 1953 and about surviving in a dictatorship

Thanks MrsS - I love a good book recommendation!

Your comments have been truly fascinating

I have always argued the side of communism but as I said I have never had to live in a communist state, so it is easy for me to say these things!

No doubt I would find it tough to give up my luxuries - books being one of them!

jig, not enough in the way of apostrophe use in the comma comeback...

What, is, wrong, with, the,apostrophe?

We are debating communism, not grammar!

Wow, what a revolutionary idea! No one has ever thought of that before.

The problem with idealism is that it is just that - idealistic. It is great in theory, but does not work in reality because it works against human nature.

I think that democracy is imperfect, but it is better than other political idea tried so far because it accounts for human difference, but is based on a sense of equality.

Just my opinion, though, of course. See what I did with those commas?

dont fancy full on communism much myself, political dogma and doctrine being what it is but capitalism will only ever benefit the few in society and enables the rich to stay and get richer etc..

but
some economic democracy and equality of opportunity would be nice a change interesting, worth trying!
...where the brightest and best in society can fulfill their potential to the benefit of all...despite where they start on the social ladder but it is hardly likely to happen..

roseability..i dont think capitalism does work for the majority at all but is the devil you know for enough, not to want to rock the boat to change it..
communism was uber useful for capitalism as it could be held up as the evil that might happen if you dont support this system ..

i travelled extensively in eastern europe after fall of the iron curtain and many people we met lamented what they had lost in terms of social stability (once they had got over the novelty of marlboro and levis of course)..

romy heres a few more then ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,

mrs s ive found your posts fasinating too.

...should the oncologist/scientist be paid the same as the power washer at kwik fit?

if yes- why

...because anyone can be a power washer at Kwik Fit. To be an oncologist/scientist takes years of training and arguably gives back more to society than a power washer.

no, love, apostrophe, ''''''
here's, not heres

i'll be off to pedant's corner...

i know that, love, just cant be bothered.

Dee - you are right, there was huge shock about unemployment and inflation, as it had never really happened before in the 1990s. It hit people very hard. Some never recovered. Others took it for the opportunity it was - to travel, have your own business, do what you had been doing on the black for years, legitimately.

But at least they had their freedom - of expression, press, to travel...

I am missing a comma in my last post. I have just noticed. Apologies.

mrs s

tee hee, did nearly go back and take out the 'love' lol

I am confused about the comma thing

Please explain

A friend and I were talking about this recently. She has family in former DDR (East Germany).

The problem was that the children went to school and did not have to work hard, everyone got an "Abschluss" and everyone got a job after their exams. You did not have to scrimp and save and struggle to get on the property ladder, just wait long enough. The same with a car. You saved up your money for a Trabi and then waited and waited and waited. Normally for about 7 years, iirr.

So, what does that do to ambition? Why work hard if you can get the same for doing nothing?

East Germany is now in the situation that the generation of 20somethings do not actually know firsthand of the flip side of the communist utopie. And they are angry and resentful that they do not live in the land of plenty, as it is sometimes portrayed.

There are a lot of people now in the exDDR who get all nostalgic about the good old days. They forget the food shortages and the travel restrictions, the think about the employment rate and the fact that everyone had a home. This "Ostalgie" trivialises the dangers of communism.

mrs s...i think the common folk lost out in communist system (lack of personal freedoms as you state) and then again but i cant help feeling sorry for them again under capitalism as it descended on them and the rise of oligarchs..
it just doesnt seem fair..

worth remembering too on the political freedom side the McCarthy witchhunts in the usa and also today we have guantanamo prisoners without any hope of due process..

i dont think either system works for the benefit of ordinary bods tbh

what is it with the commas?
is this about comma-unism?

give it up, it aint gonna work
you know semi colons are the way forward ...

lol@ dee comma-unism

I don't like ticky-tacky

Mme Lindt is right. The long wait for telephones, televisions, cars etc. I had forgotten that. And the DDR was a lot more hard line than Poland.

"Stasiland" is another good book about people looking back at this era through rose coloured glasses.

In Romania, people were allocated jobs after graduation. This bore little relationship to what you might want to do or where you might want to live.