To wish that people would not bag a seat first and THEN get their food in a busy cafe...

[paolosgirl]

because those of us who reached the head of the queue before your pal who's way at the back of the queue now have to wander aimlessly about holding a tray with food or drink on it that's now getting cold, because we CAN'T GET A BLARDY TABLE because they're all full of people holding seats for their pals in the queue.

ARGHHHHHH....

Actually, IMNBU at all. I'm being perfectly reasonable (and probably a bit of PMT involved here, granted), but does this wind anyone else up, or shall I just go and have a wee lie down?

The queue first system works pretty well here in my part of Scotland. I think the last time I couldn't get a seat in M&S was when a group of about 8 teens was sat in a group sharing two glasses of coke via straws. They shuffled off when I pointed out we had plates of food. And that was at least one cafe makeover back so ages ago. Maybe the Scots are better mannered than other peoples.

Not at all findtheriver. There are five of us and it is a doddle for everyone to quickly choose what they want, sit down and let say 2 of us do the queuing.

The bit about meals vs a drink is a red herring - cafes that don't want tables kept busy by people just having a cuppa make it clear that at certain times e.g. 12-2 you must also buy food. Otherwise, all customers are equal.

And you've shot yourself in the foot with your last paragraph - if everyone has first chosen their table, no family who has bought a meal will be struggling to find somewhere to sit together. That's the point!

Must admit i sit before i have my food

But then again the only time i ever eat out is when there is Me, DH and DS and DD so we take a seat and DH usually goes and orders - pointless standing in a cue with two grumpy kids if they can be at the table doing something to keep them occupied while we wait.

Understand this can't be done when on your own with kids and if it was just two of us then we'd get our food first.

Surely the point is that we don't need to care about any of this and get into any conflict-bagsy a seat or queue, who cares, it's the cafe that needs to sort it out.

exactly wahwah - which is what I said in my earlier post. if they sell a customer food or drink to be consumed on their premises, they have a duty to then provide the service you've bought. So it's in their interests that people aren't taking up tables while they're not eating.

findtheriver, we talk a lot of sense.

I did this recently for the first time and marked a table out with my shopping bags. Only to come back after being harassed by the children to find the table occupied and my bags flimped. That will teach me There's someone in a pub right now trying to flog some hot Postman Pat jim jams and beige orthopedic pants - the bastardios.

I quietly boil and then if I can't sit down after 5 mins I demand my money back.

Talking of M&S they told me off for eating one of their salads(bought from the store and not available in the caf) in the cafe after purchasing £15 worth of drinks and sandwiches (I can't eat gluten) I told them to check with their head office about it which stopped her in her tracks.

RANT RANT RANT.

I can't believe that I am supposed to go into a cafe with five friends and we all queue, I say '6 coffees please' and then the friends all have to say 'we are together', 5 times and the person serving can't even see the next person to take an order! The queue all has to wait until the coffees are made, rather lengthy if some of the coffees are cappucinos, and then we all troop to a table and the next person can finally be served.Even sillier if they try and stand out of the way somewhere until I tell them they can sit. Common sense says that 5 people should sit down while one person gives the order.

Have you never seen a group of people in a queue, abbey? They don't all stand one behind the other and repeat in regimented fashion 'i'm being served'.

They stand moire in a little group and chatter away as they move up the line. It's to do with a basic consideration for others who need a table before you.

I think a distinction needs to be made between a cafe which is virtually empty, so getting a table won't be a problem, and a busy cafe where there's a very real possibility of not getting a table.
AbbeyA - if you walked into a cafe that was near empty,hardly any queue,with your 5 friends, all just wanting a coffee, then I think there would be no problem in some of you sitting down and one or two getting the coffees in. You're not depriving anyone else of a seat are you?
On the other hand, if you went into a busy cafe, with a long queue, and your 5 friends bagged a table maybe 10 minutes before you were going to have anything to drink, leaving other people at the head of the queue to maybe not be able to find a table together - that's just queue jumping and pretty selfish isnt it?
I would guess the reason some cafes have queue first rule is precisely because most places probably have some very busy periods so it makes sense to have an easy workable consistent rule.
I wouldnt have a problem with people bagging tables if there are plenty to go round. If I was with a group buying a meal and then found we couldnt get a table together because of seat baggers, then, yes, I would definitely complain to the staff and IME they are quite happy to turf people off the tables who arent eating!

In my M&S you have only room for one behind the other.
Cafes should get a system to ensure that everyone has a seat (very simple, as I explained yesterday).
It isn't good enough that they let people queue and can't ensure that a party of 6 can sit together.
Until cafes get their act together, I shall continue to choose a seat first, because I certainly don't want to order unless I know that I have a seat.
On my own it doesn't matter that I can't get a seat first because I can easily find a spare seat and it doesn't matter who I sit next to.
In RL it is the norm, a very sensible one IMO. Going to a cafe is supposed to be a sociable,pleasant experience!
If all 6 want a second cup do we give up our seats and all queue again or does one person do the sensible thing and go and order for us?

You're just not getting it, are you, AbbeyA? If the cafe is busy and you bag a table first - whether you are alone or with others - you are jumping the queue which is rude and selfish. How much space you and your companions take up in the queue is utterly irrelevant. Everyone cannot bag a table first - if you are on your own (and we don't all want to sit next to strangers even when alone) you cannot do it - so no-one should (disabled people excepted).

I agree with findtheriver that there isn't a problem when the place is quiet but otherwise, if you bag first you're in the wrong.

If nobody ever bagged a table, the issue of being unable to get a table once you have your food would not arise. It's you baggers who upset the flow.

So, there you are, AbbeyA, four of you, in a cafe. There's one table unoccupied. In front of you in the queue are two couples who have already ordered and are about to pay and sit down. Would you still bag that table, meaning the two couples have nowhere to sit?

AbbeyA is getting a lot of stick here. IMO bagging is the norm and I don't see it as queue jumping. Ecoworrier and abbeyA have explained it perfectly. I cannot add anything. And singletons can use their bags etc to reserve or otherwise share and should not be precious about wanting to sit alone. I have shared before, it is fine. That is all really.

Singletons cannot "use their bags" to reserve, blueshoes. Why should I leave my personal possessions vulnerable to theft as the only way to get a table? What if I don't have any bags cos I've just started my shopping trip and haven't anything yet?

Why should I have to share if I'm on my own? And who am I sharing with? Why should they have to share with me - AbbeyA has made it clear that she and friend don't want to share with anyone.

Bagging might be "the norm" but it's still wrong.

It may the norm where you are but it isn't here.

Btw, I was having coffee on Saturday when someone came and sat at my table. The management slung him off.

The way I see it, baggers waltz around (rightly or wrongly) but queuers are the only ones getting hot under the collar holding their tray hoping for that empty table, clutching all their worldly possessions. I know which group I want to join.

So do I, blueshoes. I want to be in the group that shows consideration for other people. I'd rather add to the numbers of that group than the other. It will make life better for everyone.

If there is only one table and 2 couples in the queue I would quite obviously go somewhere else! I should think one of the couples would as well. If I go to a cafe as a couple I don't want to share my table with another couple!! It is a social occasion, I don't want a private conversation in front of strangers!
The only person inconvenienced by not being able to get a table is the singleton (which is often my position)who can join someone else because they haven't anyone to converse with! I read a book or do a crossword.
Anyone who went in the cafe in front of me, with another person should have chosen a seat.
I am not willing to place an order if I haven't got a seat with the people I went with. I am not going for the refreshments-I am going for the sociability.
Ecoworrier explained it perfectly.
If I was ever to run a cafe I would insist that people had a table number first. I gave a perfectly easy system at the bottom of page 6-it wouldn't cost the cafe anything and would solve the problem!!

AbbeyA - out of interest, how do you feel about sharing a table with another couple, when you are visiting a cafe as a singleton? You have very strong views about not wanting to share a table when you are part of a couple, or with friends,but you also make it clear that you are happy to share a table and read your book when you are alone. Should singletons only share with other singletons? There's clearly a cafe protocol here!

Fine, AbbeyA, where the cafe operates such a system. But the system is designed to resolve the problem caused by the table baggers. If you would just stop bagging tables, the problem would not arise in the first place.

Why do you insist that "the singleton...can join someone else"? If you don't want to share with someone else when you are with your friend, why should anyone do so when they are alone. You seem to assume there will be other singletons to share with. What if there are not?

BTW, your reference to page 6 is meaningless to anyone who has different display options from you.

I would only join another singleton, after asking if they mind, I wouldn't join people who were conversing.
If on my own I judge the tables occupied and the length of the queue, if getting a table seems unlikely I go somewhere else.It hasn't failed me yet and I can only remember a couple of occasions where I had to join someone. The only people who would muck up my system are those who insist on the whole party queueing and then, as eccoworrier says,it is impossible to know if they are groups of one, two, six or more!!
I really don't know why it is such a problem-most people get a table before the refreshments.
If I couldn't get a seat at all and I had my food then I would ask for my money back-but it has never been necessary.

Sorry-I didn't know there were different display options.
The simple system is that the cafe has the same number of reserved signs as tables. As you go in you take a reserved sign and put it on the table of your choice. You note your table number (in case you forget). Then you can choose your preferred method of queueing. When you finish the member of staff clears the table and puts the reserved sign back by the door. A notice says sorry, if no reserved signs we are full try again later.
A computer with touch screen that gives a ticket with table number would be better but more complicated. The reserve sign is simple to operate.

Where I usually have coffee is town in bereft of other nearby choices, apart from a Costa's where you have to go downstairs balancing a tray and bags. Ime, most people don't bag tables but maybe that's a regional variation.

Suedonim, I have never noticed bagging to be a problem in London. Perhaps there is a lot more choice of cafes, delis and restaurants. Therefore, if people cannot be guaranteed to get a place (via bagging), they just happily patronise another establishment. I would rather know in advance, than queue in the oftchance and waste my time, because there will almost invariably be another cafe further down (Starbucks?) that will be less crowded.

And if a cafe had a

As a singleton, I will ask before sharing a table. I am not THAT rude to just plonk myself down. I usually have a book as well so the view is irrelevant. Ah the memories of singleton days - does not happen these days.

Mshighwater: "I want to be in the group that shows consideration for other people. I'd rather add to the numbers of that group than the other. It will make life better for everyone." By being inflexible about refusing to use a bag or coat to reserve and not wanting to share tables and then insisting everyone follows the queueing system out of some personal sense of consideration (which baggers don't even see as a consideration issue but purely a practical one), I am afraid you might be making life more difficult for yourself. Somewhat like King Canute trying to halt a rising tide. Noble, but somewhat pointless.