To wish that people would not bag a seat first and THEN get their food in a busy cafe...

[paolosgirl]

because those of us who reached the head of the queue before your pal who's way at the back of the queue now have to wander aimlessly about holding a tray with food or drink on it that's now getting cold, because we CAN'T GET A BLARDY TABLE because they're all full of people holding seats for their pals in the queue.

ARGHHHHHH....

Actually, IMNBU at all. I'm being perfectly reasonable (and probably a bit of PMT involved here, granted), but does this wind anyone else up, or shall I just go and have a wee lie down?

Even simpler solution: if you cannot beat 'em, join'em.

The whole point blueshoes is that if you are on your own you can't join them!

You can join them, literally. That is what I would do if I was on my own, and no shame in asking. After all, can't be precious about eating at your own table if you are already balancing a tray.

AbbeyA, I agree that there are methods to prevent this sort of problem arising. However, as long as the likes of M&S do not adopt one of them, those of you who bag a table first where there is no such system(with the exception of those who have a good reason for needing to do so) are, purely and simply, in the wrong.

BTW, in answer to the "what about when I'm on my own with small kids to cope with?" question, I say go to John Lewis (in Glasgow, anyway). Any time I've been in there alone with dd, there's been someone "patrolling" part of whose role is to assist - she carries the tray to your table for you, sorts out a highchair, etc.

Sorry-I see what you mean blueshoes, that is what I do on my own so it isn't a problem. It is a problem with more than one which is why we get the table first.
I shall continue to ignore the notices in M&S-except that next time I am in I will find someone to complain to about the ridiculousness of the notice.
I would love to organise a mass demonstration when we clog up the queue with buggies, wheelchairs, families, babes in arms etc and then we balance trays in the middle of the restauraunt asking the management how we are supposed to manage without a table! Either that or we deposit small children-one on each table all crying because they are not with their families, because when they had queued they couldn't get a table together!(except that it would be cruel to the children).
If you go into a cafe with one adult and 3 children it is essential to know that you can have a table for 4 before you order the food. It is not essential for one person on their own who can sit anywhere there is a space!!

I have never found anyone patrolling-it sounds a good system. The easy answer is to bring back waitress service everywhere!

AbbeyA, then you would get complaints from all those who could no longer afford to eat in these cafes now that they had had to put prices up to pay the extra staff wages.

I think if they are cutting costs by self service they have to take responsibility for seating everyone, it is not good enough to put up an unworkable notice and leave it as a free for all.

I am not surprised this is an immense thread.

This really annoys me as well. A d I kow exactly what the opposition's argument will be without having to trawl through their sorry little responses. 'Well, of course I get a seat first, why on earth would I inconvenience myself, everyone should do it, no one's stopping them'.

If it takes 10 minutes+ for members of your family to sit twiddling their thumbs at an empty table in a busy cafe and 20 minutes for a group to sit at a table, eat and leave, then work out the maths, you self-centred buffoons.

People with very small children, very elderly grannies, disabled family etc etc, well of course you can be an exception.

Most of these self-centred buffoons do not fit these categories.

Haven't read whole thread, but I always go back to the till and explain that they need to find me somewhere to sit as they've taken my money. It always works.

Have you tried doing that with a party of 6, with room for a buggy, wahwah?

I do that as well, Wahwah, and agree it always works.

Those who bag seats - how do you feel if you come back to your table and find someone else(me!) sitting at it, serenely eating the food they purchased five places in front of you in the queue?

I can't see how seating a party of six can help - how do people choose their food/drinks if they're not at the counter?

And M&S have been known to monitor the situation. We were in their cafe in Edinburgh and dd2 sat down because she was tired and an assistant made her get up in case soneone else wanted the table! I do think that was excessive use of force and somone else in the queue took pity on us and pointed out a table for dd that was out of sight of Hawkeye. In their defence, it was Xmas-time so they needed to keep things moving but in our defence, it was late in the day and not that busy.

I've always done that too Wahwah. Once I have purchased my meal, and am standing there with my tray of food going cold, unable to find a seat because people have already bagged them while waiting for someone who may be 10 minutes behind in the queue, I simply return to the till. I tell them loudly that they have sold me a meal to eat on their premises. (A big chunk of the cost is presumably to cover the expense of having a sit down rather than take out meal). I tell them that if they have nowhere for me to sit, then they have mis-sold me my goods! It never fails. The staff will scuttle around turfing people off the tables they are bagging. Try it!

That is the problem on your own suedonim you can't leave a coat or bag-I would have no hesitation about moving it if I needed the table.
However when out with my disabled mother I am going to sit her down while I queue. Since she can only walk with a stick and my arm I can't cope with a tray as well! I also refuse to queue up with children in tow, and as a person on my own in the queue, my pet hate is parents who insist on queueing with children and wish they would leave them out of the way of hot drinks and sit down first!!
Someone queuing with a buggy is the worst of all!Common sense is needed.

My point AbbeyA is that it is the shop's responsibility to sort it out. If you don't like children queuing with parents, then ask the staff to assist you with your particular preference, however odd. I can't leave mine on their own, so I sall always be the annoying person with a toddler and baby, or on occasions a buggy.

I don't think any reasonable person would quibble over a disabled person taking a seat beforehand, I really don't. But to say you can't queue just because you have dc with you is a bit pathetic, imo. Yes, you need to have eyes in the back of your head with little ones but that's what parenting is all about - multitasking! If I couldn't cope, I'd go to a waitress service place.

I shall always be the annoying person who gets a seat before purchasing. It is ridiculous, to me,that a party of 6 would go out for morning coffee and six people would queue up for it!! If they came to me house, I would make it in the kitchen and take it through on a tray. By the time the management had found a table to fit 6 and turfed the people off the coffee would be cold-we also wouldn't want to have a table for 4 and a table for 2,if we had gone to have coffee together.
If I sit down and the management tried to turf me off, I would either be able to say that my friend is the one at the head of the queue and we need the table or the friend would be further back so we wouldn't have queued for long and would go elsewhere.
The only person to be disadvantaged is the person on their own (often me)and it is very easy to join another lone person and get my book out!
I didn't realise it was a problem until this thread started!

The problem is that the two systems (queuing then mindlessly wandering around with heavy trays vs finding your table first) are incompatible, and that everyone should only use one.

Since the fairest and most efficient is to find your table first, ensuring everyone who orders food or drink has somewhere to sit, everyone should thus adopt this system.

It costs more to eat in rather than take food out, so your 'contract' with the cafe is that that cost allows you to sit and use their facilities. It makes no sense whatsoever to pay this price if you are not sure you will be able to sit down straight away.

It really is more efficient this way - you enter the premises, check to see if your group can all be seated, if yes you settle your family and one or two of you go to order, if no you leave and go elsewhere. Everyone knows at the start of the transaction that they have a suitable table.

The alternative is to have the queue artificially inflated by everyone queuing needlessly (in our case 5 of us when usually two of us queue), making it hard to form a realistic picture of how many tables-worth of people that is. Are those 20 people in queue 5 lots of 4, or 10 lots of 2, or perhaps a few singles and lots of 3s? By contrast, when people are choosing a table first, it is self-evident what spaces are left.

Then, having made the queue look horrendously long, the five of us are expected to trail around the cafe looking for someone to sit. Oh yes, and we are expected to ask others if we can share their tables, regardless of the fact that the sole reason we have entered that establishment is to sit together and not sit with strangers.

You see, if everyone adopts the queue-first approach it still doesn't work because you still take the risk of getting to the end of the queue, paying, and still finding there isn't a table to suit your party. By contrast, if everyone adopted the table-first approach it works seamlessly because you know from the outset whether or not there is space.

I think it's a minor problem anyway, to be honest. Very few places have a queue-first rule, and the cafe owners or managers I know all prefer their customers to find a table first, so for them it works best too.

The voice of common sense ecoworrier! Self service cafes should find a system that ensures that everyone knows that they have the seat they want before they buy. I have suggested 2 workable systems, the first of which could be implemented tomorrow at no extra cost!

As a lone person I would much rather groups or couples found their table first then I can assess from the tables vacant and the people in the queue the likelihood of a seat. If everyone is in the queue it is impossible to assess!

YOU ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BU.

you snooze you lose baby.

Amen ecoworrier. Voice of reason.

But how do you adopt the 'table first' system if you are on your own? You can't simultaneously sit at a table and stand in the queue.

I was wondering the same thing idling. And also, how can a group of, say, 6 people all choose what they want to eat and drink without having a proper look.Seems a bit silly to expect one person to queue, remember everyone's orders and then carry it all to the table!! Far simpler to just queue, choose, then sit down. That way the staff can also see whether they are getting too full and regulate the queue as well. If half the tables are full of people waiting for others in the queue, it's very hard for staff to assess how long they will be there - eg are they just going to have a cuppa or a full meal??
Of course a little common sense needs to be exercised (a disabled person will need to sit down) but the ridiculous state of affairs you often see where two thirds of the cafe is bagged by people without a meal, while families who have bought a meal are struggling to find somewhere to sit together is no help to anyone!