To wish that people would not bag a seat first and THEN get their food in a busy cafe...

[paolosgirl]

because those of us who reached the head of the queue before your pal who's way at the back of the queue now have to wander aimlessly about holding a tray with food or drink on it that's now getting cold, because we CAN'T GET A BLARDY TABLE because they're all full of people holding seats for their pals in the queue.

ARGHHHHHH....

Actually, IMNBU at all. I'm being perfectly reasonable (and probably a bit of PMT involved here, granted), but does this wind anyone else up, or shall I just go and have a wee lie down?

"why not try to push for better systems"? Because ecoworrier, there is nothing actually wrong with the queue-first system when it is respected. It is a perfectly acceptable and functional system for a particular kind of establishment. Of course, plenty of establishments have equally functional alternative systems where tables are reserved first and that's fine.

The problem only ever arises when people go into the first kind of establishment and unliterally follow the second kind of system (wihout good cause) for their own selfish convenience.

Thank you ecoworrier,people seem to have missed that fact that I go elsewhere!
I would just like to force places like M&S to have a fairer system. The fact is that people will always bag tables, so expecting everyone to queue will never work efficiently.
I have said over and over again that there is an alternative view, and that as a lone customer who can't bag a table ,I much prefer people to get their seat first if they can. I find those who insist on queueing with their whole party distinctly annoying.
The only thing that worries me is that M&S is one place that I take my mother. I will now be very stressed that when she is sitting down waiting for me to bring her coffee someone in management will march over and tell her to give the table to someone else. She will be very upset, but won't want to explain her medical condition to complete strangers so will have to hobble off and stand around, something she can't do for long.

The problem with your system MsHighwater, is that it not respected and never will be. I don't bag the tables but people do-it is a fact of life and they will continue to do so despite notices. If the system doesn't work-change it!

DD and I had a snack in M&S today. It was busy but absolutely no problem getting a table. In fact, the person on the till decided he would carry my tray to the table himself - thank you!!

I did watch a table-bagger in action though. She sat her two dc at a table and went off to queue. An almighty row broke out between the two dc (over who should sit on which chair, lol) with voluble screeches. The mum had to come back to calm ruffled feathers then return to the queue, during which time lots more people had come into the cafe so she was actually farther back than when she'd started!

War broke out again between the girls, culminating in the younger one running off and having to be captured, eventually being returned to the table. Shortly after, yet another argument began but thank goodness for the rest of us, the mum finally brought their food and we got some peace and quiet.

Quite honestly, if I was going to queue in that system I'd rather take my chance with kids in the queue than go through all that table-bagging palava.

Just imagine what a nuisance those girls would have caused in the queue!

Some control could have been exercised over them in the queue!

Last time I was in the queue a mother was trying to exert some control but as soon as she was distracted they were an absolute menace.

But at least they were in arm's reach, rather than at the opposite end of a cafe. Common sense to keep your young children beside you at all times.

AbbeyA, there is nothing, absolutely nothing, unfair about the "no bagging" system. Why on earth should the world be organised around those who are too ill-mannered to act with simple consideration? It is actually possible for the majority to influence the rude minority into behaving better. The idea that we should abandon a perfectly good system to pander to those who care only for their own convenience is ridiculous.

Just a thought, but parking bays for Blue Badge holders are also widely abused. Should that system also be abandoned because "it doesn't work"?

It is a crap British idea not to have waitress service. On continent even cheaper joints have waiters, you sit down and your food is brought. I would rather take a sandwich to a park then queue with a tray like it was the war or school or prison or something.

Of course you get the damn table first. Why would you even join a queue without a cast iron guarantee of somewhere to eat when you get your stuff?

And I hate eating with other folks wandering around with trays looking for tables, making you feel you have to bolt your lunch.

So uncivilised.

I hate going to places with waiters. I hate tipping, too.

It's not just like the war or school or prison. It's also like a self-service cafe.

And of course, if you get the "damn" table first, you are rude, ill-mannered and inconsiderate. Not at all civilised, in fact.

Yeah...the 'continent' (what a quaint term) also has pissoirs in the street, horse meat and fois gras. Not all is civilised

I have been known, when on my own, with a tray of rapidly cooling food to just sit down at a table. 'There's someone sitting there!' - oh no there isn't, otherwise I couldn't sit here could I? And anyway, I am clearly ahead of them in the queue so have the right to sit down before them.' They shut up and moved away. A bit stressful, admittedly, but better than meekly shuffling about waiting for someone to 'allow' me a table.
I never bag a table unless I am pretty sure that I won't be jumping the queue by doing so. And yes, I have young children including one who doesn't really do waiting (ASD) because I am not more important than anyone else.

Well said, Msdemeanor

Hear hear, Msdemeanor.

You can't actually get away from the fact that it doesn't work! People bag tables. Last time I was holiday with sun loungers they were put in a pile every night and locked. They were unlocked at a civilized time each morning, when everyone had had time to have breakfast. Nobody could bag a sunlounger. It was quite obvious to me that it was done because polite notices didn't work!
It doesn't matter how many of us queue the proper way (I include myself here as I don't actually bag seats-I go somewhere civilized!). People will ignore notices and bag a seat. I think this should be acknowledged and the system changed -as it was with the sunloungers.

AbbeyA, I don't have to go somewhere "civilised". I try to be civilised.

Your sunlounger analogy really doesn't work since, on the whole, people occupy sunloungers for much longer than they occupy tables in a self-service cafe. If all the tables in the cafe are occupied (by people eating/drinking, not by baggers), chances are you won't have long to wait before someone finishes and leaves. Waiting for a sunlounger to be vacated is far more random.

I'm fed up with this now. It seems that we actually agree that it is rude to bag tables. Where we differ is that you think the attempt to cater (pardon the pun) for the majority is futile and that the rude minority should be pandered to. I disagree.

I am also fed up with it! People bagged tables in the past, they bag them now and they will bag them in the future. The thread wouldn't have started if everyone queued. Therefore, whether it should or it shouldn't, you like it or not, you set a good example or not, it quite simply doesn't work and needs to be changed!

People keep ignoring the alternative view, shared at least by ecoworrier, that as lone queuers (who are unable to bag a seat even if we wanted to) we actually prefer people to sit down first.

Also, from a purely selfish point of view, I have done my share of children in cafes and if they are causing problems I would prefer they did it away from the queue. (I know this is a poor attitude, just honest).

Abbey, I have been a lone queuer and I can assure you I did not prefer people to sit down first. It was being a lone queuer that showed me the effect on singletons like me of other people bagging tables and it made me fume. However, just because I am seldom on my own in a self-service cafe now does not mean that I think it's OK for me to bag a table just because I can.

At least you acknowledge your point of view is selfish. I just try not to be selfish. At least that way I know that the sum total of selfishness is reduced, albeit only by a tiny bit. Every little helps.

And btw, being "honest" does not excuse a poor attitude.

Well not wanting to trivialise what sounds like an important issue to you, BUT

have a glass of wine

relax

and forget about it

MsHighwater, I realise that as a lone queuer you think everybody should queue and I know exactly why you think it. You are entitled to this view. What you don't seem to take into account is that as a lone queuer I prefer people to take a seat.You keep telling me that I can't think that! I do think it and I have listed my reasons several times.

This thread seems to have been taken over by people with evangelical zeal and I think latterly people are unwilling to admit that they bag a seat or they are just bored rigid by the whole thing!
It is too early in the morning to take Quattrocento's suggestion but I think I will have a coffee and forget about it!

I went back to the beginning of the thread and did a tally chart, counting people only once.
I got as far as 10 people think everyone should queue and they are very annoyed with table baggers, 25 people bag tables, mainly as a common sense move because they don't want the food without a table and 6 people don't like the system and go elsewhere. I just got too bored to carry on after that and it was getting difficult to remember if people had already posted.

It shows quite clearly that the system doesn't work! If a system doesn't work it should be changed!

I wasn't saying that my point of view was selfish only that I felt selfish not feeling sorry for a woman having problems with her children! I am afraid that if they couldn't sit quietly at the table and she had to lose her place in the queue to sort them out, I am merely grateful that she didn't inflict their behaviour on the queue.

This thread mystifies me.
I wouldn't in my wildest dreams eat or drink somewhere where there was a question of me being inconvenienced/queueing/sharing tables with strangers.

I would rather stay home or have a can of Coke on the beach.