to think NCT antenatal courses are pretty much a load of crap???!

[Gateau]

What a waste of money. Yes, you meet some good friends from it, but IMO that's one of the only positives.
They draw over about six weeks what could be said in one or two classes. All the members of our course said that.
The course is almost all about the woman's 'birth experience' which I found just makes women obsess about the birth itself. So many women I knew were "disappointed" with the birth, when surely it's not all about teh birth, but more about the wonderful reward you get at the end?And they barely touch on having a C-section - which is what I had.
And there's all this rubbish about "challenging" the medical staff when they suggest you have a C-section- with what energy, after 14 hours in labour? And when they say either have a c-section or risk endangering you and the baby, what choice is there?
our NCT teacher asked me to do a talk to her new group post-baby - or rather I was the only one who said I would. She very much disliked that fact that I was telling them I bottle-fed (because we are breaking the breastfeeding law, of course)and that I DIDN'T advocate sitting around the house in pjs after the baby was born - it doesn't suit everyone's state of mind. The NCT IMO is dogmatic.
I think the NCT course would be much more productive if it focused a little more on the early parenting side of things - that's where me and most of my NCT friends could have done with the advice!!

Oh god I'd forgotten about the turns hosting - wiped it out of my mind - in manner of horror story - was utterly ghastly. I spent ages worrying about the house (too big? too small? location? tidiness?) and was filled with anxiety about where to find 16 ill-assorted home thrown earthenware mugs and tie-dyed floor cushions.

fabsmum - yes, St George's classes are the same course as the NCT, with the same good local tutor. Except almost no-one can get on it - I don't know anyone who has!

Admittedly I couldn't get a booking-in appt until 22 weeks (a whole nother rant), so not that long to fit in antenatal classes afterwards, but given they know roughly how many women give birth there each year, I suspect it's a budget decision not to offer many classes and just tell you to look elsewhere.

I meant to say, I agree that in a lot of cases intervention must not be necessary, but in the last week or so on MN I've seen posts from two people saying that they regret insisting on delivering vaginally and refusing a section due to the awful outcomes for the child.

Natural childbirth as natural and healthy and worthwhile as it should be isn't the be-all and end-all. Personally I didn't bring children into the world because I wanted to experience natural childbirth, I wanted to bring a healthy child safely into the world whichever way was best for the child.

Class members should set their own agendas. That way their own needs are met.

Where I live you really to book the NCT classes 6 weeks before conception to get in. I left it too late and missed out.

All I wanted was the opportunity to meet other mothers, so off I went to the NCT's bumps and babies group. I did all the groups, so developed a good network of lovely people with babies the same age.

No matter how good or bad the class, I think it is worth it for the support network.

My course was useless.
I was having twins and any time myself or my DH asked whether that would make a difference the teacher shook her head and told us to stop being anxious.
She refused to discuss the increased liklihood of complications and Csections. It was all very well wanting to support me through a natural birth - something I desperate;ly wanted and good on them for not assuming I would have or want a section- but with multiples you have to be realistic about other events taking over.
Fortunately my consultant was able to give us the relevant information. I still had a vaginal birth but at least I knew what would happen if things went wrong.

"I suspect it's a budget decision not to offer many classes and just tell you to look elsewhere"

Our local hospital now only offers one 3 hour class for first time parents. One!

And even that's hard to get on to.

"I wanted to bring a healthy child safely into the world whichever way was best for the child"

I think you'll find this is the aim of everyone involved in maternity services. Including NCT teachers.

I'm thinking of offering individual 2 or 3 hour workshops on various subjects.... wonder if it'll work.

At the moment I'm thinking of:

being a birth supporter

coping with your new baby in the first week

physical skills for labour

... for starters

I reckon I could do them for £20 per couple for a two hour class.

What do you think? Would there be any interest?

Quattocentro - the whole housing thing is a nightmare. I used to teach at home, until I realised that my hideous house was probably distracting people and making them feel depressed about becoming a parent (you know - rooms pebbledashed with weetabix, faint piddly smell). I've been to some postnatal reunions at some VERY nice houses so I know that some NCT clients have the bar set quite high. On the other hand, it might have been reassuring to some of my less well off clients that SOME people who are involved with the NCT still have to obtain their furniture from skips!

I found a new venue after two of my children burst into the room stark naked screaming at each other halfway through a session.

Fabsmum - at what point did I say that that was not the purpose of anyone involved in maternity services?

Well I have painstakingly COUNTED the responses and divided them up into preferences:

NCT was a predominantly positive experience - 24

NCT - some good stuff, some bad stuff, y'know - 10

NCT was a predominantly negative experience - 14

Some people defied being categorised (Moondog and others)

So more people than not think it was worth it. If I could be arsed, I'd weed out all the people who have a vested interest (NCT teachers, committee members, mafiosi etc) because I reckon it would be a very close-run thing.

Anyhow I'm glad there's a lot of people out there who don't believe in fairies. I was starting to think I was the only one ...

"Natural childbirth as natural and healthy and worthwhile as it should be isn't the be-all and end-all"

The point I was making is that for everyone involved with mothers and babies, the most important thing is a good outcome in health terms.

Yes, I'm not denying that that is what everyone wants fabsmum.

My point though, if you re-read the post is that twice this week I have read posts from people regretting on insisting on a natural delivery despite complicating circs.

I've tried to find the terrible post that I read earlier this week from a mother who said that she had a vbac, her scar ruptured and her baby died. She specifically said that she wished she hadn't succumbed to the pressure to have a natural birth (I can't remember if NCT was mentioned, I think it might have been).

LOL at Fabby's naked infants.

As everyone has pointed out - it's the NCT or ... the NCT. I'm starting to think there's a business opportunity here. Competition is healthy. There's a chunk of client dissatisfaction. It must be able to be done better.

A website, a network of teachers, teaching to a prescribed and medically approved female-friendly curriculum, no hidden agendas, no peppermint foot oil ...

If you haven't attended classes does your opinion that NCT classes generally are crap still count? (I mean - do you include that in the negative category? Sorry - haven't gone back through the thread counting).

I tried to be as scrupulously fair as possible and only include people who had attended. I thought it was a bit ridiculous to include a +ve response from the lady who thought NCT was fab but hadn't actually had her baby (hollow laugh) but I counted her anyway.

The ones I had as predominantly negative were from:

Litchick
Quattrocento
LadyT
Sitdown
Winky
Gateau
Hatwoman
Oblomov
Overthemill
Morn ingpaper
AnguavonUber
Spokette
Mumblechum
Thisismynewname

Apologies if I have misclassified or misrepresented you. I was just trying to work out if there were more people in favour or not.

Completely agree re the gap in the market for a more impartial course provider!

I would classify myself as on the negative side of experiences. Even though I do think it depends teacher to teacher I was left pretty riled by my personal experience.

Fabsmum, I wish you'd responded rationally to the point I made rather than picking apart my post to try to make it look as though I was saying something I wasn't.

Anecdotally, from what I've seen on MN some women have felt pressured into a natural birth and lived to regret it - that's something I'd be interested in discussing.

"Completely agree re the gap in the market for a more impartial course provider!"

NCT teachers are supposed to provide EVIDENCED BASED and balanced information. If they've not done that then it's right to complain.

I learnt alot from nct classes, a hell of alot more than the crappy nhs ones

Thisismynewname - who is 'pressuring' mothers to have a natural birth?

Round our way you have to fight tooth and nail for a homebirth, a waterbirth, or for the one to one care from a midwife skilled in supporting physiological birth(something that might help you to avoid using pharmacological pain relief if this is your aim).

Fabsmum - as discussed earlier on this thread, many people have shared experiences here stating that the NCT "ethos" made them feel pressurised into having a natural birth - refusing intervention and pain relief.

Ah, but not all of them do provide evidenced based and balanced information. Mine certainly didn't, she exaggerated and made up stats as it pleased her and was called to task by my midwife for doing so.

True I didn't complain at the time, but I was in a blur of constantly breastfeeding baby twins and recovering from my section. It wasn't a priority with my limited time off.

From the amount of disgruntled experiences on here I don't think the NCT are doing enough to regulate the militant anti-everything teachers who are giving the good teachers a bad name. And I think with the amount of negatives experienced with the NCT plus the lengthy waiting lists, it is high time another provider seized the opportunity and ran an impartial, open course which properly monitored its tutors and the messages/information they were sharing with their classes.

NCT classes?
lovely teacher
great friends
obsession on labour ... like labour is the hard stuff compared to having a new born baby!!!!!
On balance, not withstanding the fact that I learnt NOTHING of any use to me during those 6 weeks, it was actually worth it for the group of friends I made.
Just one session on how bloody hard having a new baby is would have been good, or even the top secret that breastfeeding is total agony at first. But you pays your money and takes your choice I guess ...

My NCT class was definitely NOT anti-intervention or anti-c section, and I think any class that pressurises women into a certain type of delivery or encourages unrealistic expectations of delivery is probably being badly taught and not in keeping with the general NCT ethos.

BUT having said all that, part of the reason people attend NCT classes, specifically instead of NHS ones, is to get the other side of the story.

You ALREADY HAVE your consultant or whatever telling you their protocols and the risks and why you need to go down their route. Part of the pluses of attending an NCT class is to enable you to ask the right questions and suggest possible alternatives if the consultant's approach is a route you feel you strongly don't want to take - or if you just want to explore all the options before making up your mind.

The role of NCT classes is not to advise you on the risks of your particular pregnancy and birth plan, but I think most people would feel pretty cheated if all they did was sit back and say "do whatever your consultant tells you".

NHS classes don't provide that function for obvious reasons.