to think NCT antenatal courses are pretty much a load of crap???!

[Gateau]

What a waste of money. Yes, you meet some good friends from it, but IMO that's one of the only positives.
They draw over about six weeks what could be said in one or two classes. All the members of our course said that.
The course is almost all about the woman's 'birth experience' which I found just makes women obsess about the birth itself. So many women I knew were "disappointed" with the birth, when surely it's not all about teh birth, but more about the wonderful reward you get at the end?And they barely touch on having a C-section - which is what I had.
And there's all this rubbish about "challenging" the medical staff when they suggest you have a C-section- with what energy, after 14 hours in labour? And when they say either have a c-section or risk endangering you and the baby, what choice is there?
our NCT teacher asked me to do a talk to her new group post-baby - or rather I was the only one who said I would. She very much disliked that fact that I was telling them I bottle-fed (because we are breaking the breastfeeding law, of course)and that I DIDN'T advocate sitting around the house in pjs after the baby was born - it doesn't suit everyone's state of mind. The NCT IMO is dogmatic.
I think the NCT course would be much more productive if it focused a little more on the early parenting side of things - that's where me and most of my NCT friends could have done with the advice!!

And to add to what I posted earlier, I did make it to one of the NHS classes - the pain relief one (as my MW was so concerned that NCT wouldn't cover it) and it was fine, factual etc. They showed us different bits and pieces like a ventouse, epidural needle etc, which was useful.

The bit that irritated me was sending partners out of the room at one point (DH wasn't with me as it was during the day) as the MW coyly wanted to chat about things 'with the girls'. Made me feel about 14! Appreciate some people may have liked this approach...

There also wasn't as much time to ask questions, it was more about getting them 'telling' us stuff, rather than discussing.

Sorry LT for not responding earlier. I was certainly not being critical for your friends informed choice, however you were the one to point out she is a GP.

Orangecrush, you can also go to groups that the community midwives recommend after you have given birth - for FREE. You don't have to pay someone to chat to other mums.
Alot of groups are held in community centres where you can meet up with other new mums and discuss feedng (both BF and FF equally) without having to pay for any fancy classes.

Sorry Linden...still not clear. Not sure where you thought her sense of failure came from? (She didn't have one, you see, and why would she; all it was was that she had just been let down by her particular NCT).

I have to say my impression (because that's all it is) of the NCT is of pregnant women who come from affluent backgrounds who go to fancy yoga classes and go foodshopping regularly at M&S and look down their noses at those who can't afford the trendiest buggy or those who can't/choose not to BF.
It just doesn't seem very open to all classes, it's not publicised enough to let all expectant mums get a chance to find out what it's all about. Besides the internet, i honestly couldn't tell you much about the organisation. It's not reaching out to people of poorer backgrounds, which I find wrong.

I did not say she had a sense of failure but that she had an issue with the NCT. What were her reasons for informing women about them?

The NCT are also working with Surestart in many areas.

fair enough, but in the mean time, there's still the stigma that it's only for those of a certain background and class. surely we are all entitled to the same opportunities as we go through the same life changing experience??

Ok Linden, your precise words were: "May I suggest that the GP possibly is still dealing with her own issues if she feels so strongly about attacking the NCT...We are all shaped by our own experiences and often look elsewhere to blame when dealing with a sense of failure".

I'm not surprised she had a flamin' issue with the NCT! And do you know what? She didn't have any issues with them until she actually WENT and the NCT teacher told her, in front of everyone, she should be ashamed of herself for considering ff instead of bf (and worse) and refused point blank to give her any information about it until "she had gone away and given it a proper try". And no, she doesn't collar everyone in her surgery to say that the NCT are a coven of witches. But if anyone asks her about antenatal support, or mentions the NCT, she makes sure they know that people have had very negative experiences of the NCT as well as positive ones.

Dear Mn
What an interesting thread. I wish more people knew about nct discount policy. You can attend a class for £20 if unemplyed/benefit etc.
With regard to birth statistics and c/s when my kids were born average was 1:10 births now it is about 1:4 born by caesarean
are women changing intrinsically? but c.s birth is a reality interestingly fiona barlow of nct runs c/s classes.
vote for mars lady doula and antenatal teacher extrordinaire, if any pregnant mn is in north london do go and see her (find her on multiple birth thread)
If anyone is expecting twins triplets in berkshire come and see me
btw I think we sometimes let discussion get heated and some of earlier posts a bit rude{blush}
Sureley as articulate women we can discuss with ranting

£20 is still a lot of money for one class, in principle regardless of whether someone is on benefits or not.

Yes, there's a discount policy if you're on benefits or earn under - what - £20 000 per year... but most people aren't/don't and find being charged £540 by a charity for information that's presumably in the public domain a little insulting..

there is surely another class that you could get to that's not in covent garden, jette. £540 is just absolutely exhorbitant and not at all representative of the charges nationwide (or even london-wide by the sounds of things).

LT shame on you! You have twisted my words and changed the meaning although in fairness I could see how the conclusion could be jumped to so I apologise for not making it clear. I did not mean she had failed only that it is easy for others to deem that she had or to become more defensive when your choices are scoffed at.This can affect any mother and is clearly demonstrated in many discussion threads.

If that is what has happened to her then that was wrong and I am horrified for her.

Dear Scottish mum this is for a 14 hour course ie not much more than £1 ph
50p if both parents going

How have I twisted your words or changed the meaning? I put exactly what you said, missing out one sentence (for which I put dots to indicate) which wasn't relevant. I took what you said at face value. If it WASN'T what you meant I can only apologise. But it WAS what you said.

galaxy - All my friends in London with small kids told me to look up the NCT if I wanted any antenatal classes (and they were right - none available locally on the NHS. At all.)

So I looked at the website, winced at the £279 price (no mention of discount) emailed to ask about availability, and was told there was a course nearby, again no mention of discount. The discount was only mentioned in the depths of the paperwork after I'd confirmed I'd take up the place. And you had to provide lots of proof of low income to be considered for it.

I've run conventions with a sliding scale of costs, and I think that works a lot better, along with not asking for proof but simply reminding people booking that we need the money. The contrast between £20 and £279 is huge - must be loads of people on low incomes (ineligible for discount) who get put off!

Was also hacked off at one of the blurbs on the site about meetups and "all members are expected to take turns hosting" - many poeple may not have suitable accommodation, or have disruptive family, or generally not be in a position to host a teaparty, and they shouldn't be made to feel they can't attend ones elsewhere!

The magazine I got sent a while back from my local NCT was also terrible, slagging off hospitals to the extent that I was terrified - luckily mine does twice-weekly tours so a couple days later my mind was put at rest - and full of ads from dodgy therapists out to get lots of money from worried parents-to-be for unproven 'therapies'. I guess they take adverts from anyone and don't assess any claims.

On the other hand, the mags from the national NCT have been quite informative, and included a couple articles on how they're trying to help asylum seekers and other mothers in bad accommodation with no money, and how you can help.

We did feedback forms for our tutor, although I suspect might be useful if we had to repeat that after birth! Might be more useful if they could give you more info about teachers' slants beforehand ('Class X is these dates and focuses on homebirths, breathing and getting by without pain relief; Class Y on other dates will give you the full monty on interventions and local hospitals'). But I doubt there's enough teachers for that - I got one option on set dates, and that was it.

That sentence makes all the difference!!

Dealing with the sense of failure whether personally felt or implied by others is one of the things that surely needs to be dealt with in all aspects of motherhood.

What happened to your friend was wrong.

Well, I completed misinterpreted what you said then. I'm sorry.

I DO wish, though, that someone WOULD forward this thread to the NCT. I mean, it could be a great organisation that caters for all sorts of women, of all sorts of kinds and with all sorts of needs. At the moment, it seems such a lottery whether you get that, and surely even the diehard fans would agree with that. And what's with the varying pricing policy?

One of the earlier posters has forwarded this thread to nct I hope ceo sees it

Don't get me wrong Pruners - the horror stories are for our amusement and not just birth related - believe me I spend enough time there as it is :-)

No problem LT. Put it down to written word not always the easiest to gauge people's true meanings.

At least the NCT are always looking for ways to improve and in our area there are no NHS classes at all save a 'labour day'. The NCT is training more ANTs and postnatal leaders and this is a diploma course thru' the university of Bedfordshire, which takes 3 years on average to complete.

I should have been clear that I am not opting out purely for financial reasons and if I wanted to attend NCT I am fortunate enough to be able to 'afford' the classes - but that doesn't mean I don't believe in value for money (I am from Yorkshire afterall) and it is clear to me from this discussion that not everyone has been happy with the classes so I would rather spend my course fee on something useful...like a cot, or a car seat.

Also agree with you Scottishmum007 - I don't care if the NCT do offer reduced rates for those on 'low incomes' - we should all be able to access good, relevant information from our PCT/NHS irrespective of where you live in the country and whatever your means.

Round our way an 8 week course costs around £200. That's nine sessions, plus the meet up afterwards where I debrief the births with mums if that's what they want. I take emails from my clients all the time. I've just answered an e-mail question on weaning from someone I taught last year!

Anyway, this works out at...... £10 approximately, per person, for a 2 hour class.

Is this really bad value for money do you think?

I've looked at what other people are charging locally and our course prices are pretty competitive. And in every class I tend to have at least one couple who's on a subsidised place.

BTW - it might interest you to know that the NCT teaches in some NHS hospitals. St Georges in Tooting and Birmingham Women's Hospital (I think) have NCT teachers delivering some of their antenatal classes.

I'd love for the NCT to be more involved in NHS antenatal provision.

Message withdrawn