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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

in thinking that the word 'chav' is an overused and lazy term to describe anything we feel is vulgar ?

185 replies

MaryAnnSingleton · 16/07/2008 12:19

it annoys me that it's applied so often on mumsnet

OP posts:
MamaG · 16/07/2008 23:30

GETORFMOILAND

I need you on the quiche book club thread please

Boredworkingfromhome · 17/07/2008 07:51

Well I thought you all being horrid to Sim she only asked a question. How very rude of you all.

TheMagnificent7 · 17/07/2008 10:50

BWFH - The reply to Scottish Mummys questioning of Sims agressive (verbally) post was "FFS I only fucking asked if you were a lawyer, take it as a bloody compliment. Christ what is the bloody problem. "

I'm thinking it's not us that have the immediate potty mouth problem. Sim just isn't as elegantly verbose as SM and some of the other posters. If she does want to join in a post about a generic term that is overused and indicating a sense of laziness in things we find vulgar, swearing and getting her panties in a bunch because she doesn't understand something would seem to make her a bit of a masochist, and a perfect case study of the word in question. She upset SM by the misuse of an emoticon.

Perhaps she could try MN for beginners first before launching into a post about being vulgar...by being vulgar. That would be much more polite and less, well, Chav like

Boredworkingfromhome · 17/07/2008 11:50

Oh get you! It read like verbal bullying to me. I will end this by saying that this thread started with people not liking the word Chav and ended with one MN calling another MN a Chav, what lovely people you are!

TheMagnificent7 · 17/07/2008 12:19

Lol. I love the sniffy 'i'll end this here...' type comments from people that start arguments, get hideously shown up, then can't reply. It was a perfectly pleasant chat/post/whatever until your buddy turned up swearing her breasts off and acting dumb.

Goodbye though. Miss you already. And thanks for calling us lovely. No really. Miss you. x

Boredworkingfromhome · 17/07/2008 12:24

I've seen you swear in other posts so don't deny it.

HermanMunster · 17/07/2008 12:30

"twice in recent weeks i've been called racist for insulting a Scottish Fanjo for being a fanjo in a call centre "

wtf? how can you be racist against scottish people, they're not a race they're a nationality.
why do people use "racism" to cover all forms of xenophobia or bigottry?
over here (ireland) you always here tv presenters or radio hosts talking about "racism against the polish/middle easterns" or back in the good old days "the brits".
i'm just confused as to how it can be racist when it is white people complaining against white people, surely then it is just biggotry or xenophobia.
can someone explain it to me as it really does irk me,are they going further back to origins of different nations so celtic people could be racist against other non-celtic whites?

TheMagnificent7 · 17/07/2008 13:17

HermanM, totally agree. It's the culture of 'ism' that is, in my opinion, generated by a genuine need to attack some forms of abuse, but that has got out of hand because people are too scared to say anything about anyone anymore. The Scottish thing last week was a highlight, and I questioned it at the time. However, mention so much as the colour of your curtains these days and the PC police are all over you like an angry MNer.

I think the film Crash, from a couple of years back, addressed a lot of the frustrations of everyone, when trying to decide what is racism. My experience is that people that are not white can be equally, and certainly more in some cases, racist as any perceived white racist. Totally wrongly, white people have to put up with Sainsburys selling racist publications like Ebony and Voice, aimed squarely at the black community at the expense of any other race, white or otherwise. It's a common argument that if there was a publication called "Ivory", or "The Silent Voice" aimed at whites only, there would be burning effigys at every till. I can only comment on my experience, but the term 'race' needs a much better definition.

Interestingly, when declaring your ethnic background, you can claim to be white, white British, or White Irish. But not white Scottish, white Welsh, or White English. Should you chose to be white Northern Irish then that's a stupidly large can of worms I bet.

This is a mile away from the Chav debate though. Typically, and ignoring the non-existent racial overtones in describing chavs as 'white trash', it's a phrase used to describe a certain type of person according to clothes (Burberry etc), lifestyle (smoking children, excess alcohol in public from cans etc.), and a general (perceived) look of inbred lack of intelligence. Again, interstingly, the early posts here are about 'white trash males' rather than including the females, but the term applies equally I think.

Would anyone like a debate about what we should call 'black trash' ? Or 'asian trash' ? Or perhaps excercise our rights to not comment on the ethnicity of the trash but to just agree that they are trash full stop. Didn't think so.

The PC brigade, again mainly white in my experience, should concentrate on real problems, real racism, real discrimination against gender, sexuality, and, the biggest crime, disability. Not waste all of our time with correcting non-existent problems, and being racist/sexist in the workplace in the name of equality, which is just wrong. If you can do the job, have the job. Nobody cares what colour or sex you are, they are just being told they have to.

Right, got that out of my system. Anyone else fancy a sing song from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang ? All together now...Trrrruuuuuuulllllllleeeeeeeee Scrumptious, sheeeeeeesssssssss...

ScottishMummy · 17/07/2008 13:30

i worked for an inner london HA, and they classified me as an ethnic minority white scottish

they recorded your status at HR when you joined, and that was their classification

HermanMunster · 17/07/2008 13:34

"It's a common argument that if there was a publication called "Ivory", or "The Silent Voice" aimed at whites only, there would be burning effigys at every till"

couldn't agree with you more.
it is similar to when you see black activist groups giving out about white power groups.both of them are equally vile and racist in this day and age but because the black groups are the minority they are socially acceptable while the other is villified off hand. similarly things like the "MOBO" awards would just not be tolerated if they were the "MOWO" awards in modern soceity, as they would be deemed to be excluding other races and hindering integration. which i have no doubt they would on some level but surely no more than groups which exclude the majority race.
all you have to do is look at lazy black comics who fall back on racial stereotypes along the lines of black people = cool and can dance, white people = nerdy,can't dance etc. for some reason this is accepted where as you can only imagine if a white comic relied on negative stereotypes about black people to get a laugh in his routine.
same goes for rich people being fair game on here according to some people, but having a pop at those who are poor is not on.that is just patronising in my book as it suggests that the less well off are to be pitied and need protection as they can't take it/stand up for themselves.

this has probably made me sound like a raving white supremist racist. but i'm not, my point is that i hate racism/biggotry/discriminatiom in all it's guise wether it is a majority group aiming it at a minority group or vice versa.
surely equality means either everything is fair game or nothing is.

jojosmaman · 17/07/2008 13:41

Whoa, I think the end of this thread is a classic case of "lost in translation" that happens oh so frequently on mn! It is quite clear from a neutral that SIM as a newbie was using as a ? rather than a [who do you think you are emoticon]. I 100% agree with BWFH, she has been properly jumped on for no reason. This is the kind of thing that would happen to me and so is why I often write something to post, read it back and decide it will come across in the wrong way and delete it before moving on to thread on slow cookers or something equally less threatening... {resists the urge to delete this post}.

If I was asked if I were a lawyer I would be quite pleased.

sheepgomeep · 17/07/2008 13:49

well you learn something new everyday.

I grew up saying toilet and toilet I shall always say.

I'm not going to change saying toilet because mumsnet says so.

seriously who really cares???

TheMagnificent7 · 17/07/2008 13:51

ScottishMummy - lol. Just lol. I believe people should be proud of their heritage, and their countries. Celebration of their backgrounds is a tradition in every culture and I'm happy to equally have everyone celebrate their heritage. But I wouldn't mind betting that your local council in inner london would have a problem with you demonstrating your Scottishness (however one does that) in deference to everyone elses sensitive cultural needs. The HA (housing association, sorry) in battle against the council. All of my work is with local authorities so I know how this works.

Stupidly, MOBO (Music Of Black Origin) awards are a little self defeating if you take the view that all modern music was derived from black singers/guitarists in the American South in the 50's and 60's (please...don't want an argument about that here but a reasoned debate elsewhere is welcome). It can be argued that they gave rise to rock n roll, and it's off-shoot pop(ular music). So really it's like calling it the music for stating the bleeding obvious awards. They funniest thing is that in recent years most of the recipients were white, the black presenters kept pulling out, and the crowd were mainly busy shooting each other. Anyone else think that if it was the Music Of White Origin awards then Myleen Klass and Nigel Kennedy, and James Blunt would largely be all there was to see ?

I'm not happy to declare anything about myself here because any responses to me would then be tainted. I prefer to see the reasonableness of some, and the outright bigotry of others, bublle and seethe here. The joys of the internet.

The Chav debate has largely sprung up out of something I think personally, was meant as just a funny comment. I think if you want to label someone as common, or vulgar, or ignorant, or whatever, then labelling them as Chav has no real harm. Humour is a subjective thing, but some things are a little more lighthearted. I've not read any chav responses on here telling us how hurt they are by the label. All of the vulgar people have had a bit of a shout, but refused to acknowledge they are vulgar. I think that if the chavs are ok with it, we can just go on taking the mickey. I'll leave the Pikeys alone obviously as my driveway is only half finished.

Boom Boom (sorry! Foxist)

Blueeyedgal · 17/07/2008 13:51

Me too! Tis a huge compliment when you think it was only made by SIM's judgement on SM's vocab. Agree with JoJo this thread has rather somewhat come to a finale! Just wish I had joined in a bit earlier!

TheMagnificent7 · 17/07/2008 13:55

I didn't know about toilet, pleased to meeet you, or serviette either.

Anyone know if it is correct to describe someone as 'disablist'. You can be 'racist', a'sexist', 'ageist' (which I hate the sound of), but 'disablist' doesn't sound right.

Sim43 · 17/07/2008 13:57

Thanks BWFH, JoJo and Blueeyedgal for your comments. Have been reading with interest!

TheMagnificent7 · 17/07/2008 14:04

Slowly and carefully, but with interest

No hard feelings sim. You appeared a little aggressive is all. People are much calmer during the day. People swear on MN all the time, including me. The problem comes from doing it somewhere inappropriate, like shouting swear words in the park for all to hear. It's just not very polite, and a little bit like the point some are making here. To be likened to a solicitor in a good way is very nice. To liken them to a solicitor and question their use of these terms as if you were saying they were lying or showing off on purpose, was very rude. I hope you understand

ExterminAitch · 17/07/2008 14:08

as i may have mentioned, had sim responded with 'i meant it as a compliment', rather than in such anger (which SM's post to her Did Not Merit) then there would have been no further discussion. we have to take responsibility for what we ACTUALLY TYPE, and if we aren't clear the first time then it's fair to be queried on it without swearing and getting all faces. by the way, i'm 'neutral' on this matter, as is PW, M7 etc, we are all reading this the same as you, none of us (afaia) know SM in RL, we're all just readers here.

and bollocks to the whole 'verbal bullying' thing, btw. it's embarrassing that people even pull that sort of stunt on here. you want verbal bullying? you'd be looking for a sustained attack by a co-ordinated gang, not a few people who answered Sim's own question about who easily understood SM's post.

Sim43 · 17/07/2008 14:17

No hard feelings M7 but I really did not mean it in a sarcastic way. SM does use rather unsually large words and my question was really not meant to offend. The emoticon was used as a "just wondering" not accusing anyone of lying.

Here endeth the post on Chavs

Laugs · 17/07/2008 14:29

God this threead makes me hate mumsnet.

Loriycs · 17/07/2008 14:32

i was on this thread yesterday and it was all about chavs, then logged back on today to see all this. It really hs lost its thread!!!
by god you lot are all soooooo sensitve?!?!?!

TheMagnificent7 · 17/07/2008 14:35

Well FO then Laugs ?

Hope it wasn't too cold under the desk, sim, it can get a bit chilly on MN

ExterminAitch, thanks for the support, excellent reasoning, and meant to say it earlier, brilliant name

I'm off to shoot elephants in my pyjamas

Sim43 · 17/07/2008 14:41

Your not kidding! Anyway no hard feelings, we all got a bit carried away last night... and I had not even had a drink .

I can't say I agree with all of you, however, we live in a free society and all have our own opinions. I will in future be careful how I use my emoticon though!

Sim43 · 17/07/2008 14:44

Before I go, what exactly is shooting elephants in pyjamas! Is it the same as seeing a man about a dog! Here's me showing my ignorance again!

Sim43 · 17/07/2008 14:45

Sorry meant to be question marks not exclamaton marks!!??