in thinking that the word 'chav' is an overused and lazy term to describe anything we feel is vulgar ?

[MaryAnnSingleton]

it annoys me that it's applied so often on mumsnet

When I was at school (way back in the '80s) we used chav as a racist term of abuse for gypsies (yes, I'm enormously ashamed of this now, and can't use chav at all - 'cos all I hear is the racism).

Onestonetogo: How right you are, The Jeremy Kyle show, full of bloody chavs. I am so ashamed to be british when i see the sort of people who go on there. Lets face it anyone who goes on national television to talk about their private life, dressed in a tracksuit with greasy hair, deserves to be called a chav in my book.

jeee, i think you can probably let it go now though. I think your hail mary's are said.

It's a funny thing when you're told you must regret your actions when there were no other options at the time. I'm not even sure that you can say gypsy can you ? I thought the term was 'Traveller' now. Which is brilliant for BA World Traveller partners!

So I get the Burberry inspired latter day Chav reference, and I'd like to vote for the Cheltenham origins just because it sounds right.

What's a pikey then ? I thought that was a traveller, or a poor chav.

well... those shows are depressing for a number of reasons. not least the fact that for those families the chance of getting a free night in a motel in norwich or wherever it is makes airing their dirty laundry in public sound appealing. what kind of life must they have, the poor sods? (assuming they're genuine, as i very often have my doubts. certainly i know someone who worked on those types of shows and they weren't overly fussy).

The maagnificent7:Pikey means gyspy round our way.

Exterminaitch: Yup deffo not genuine. They like the fame I think at whatever cost.

FioFio, you're the only one coming across as class obsessed. I expect having a child with a learning disability is very hard work. Probably time you listened to your husband, and stopped taking it out on the nice supportive people here. Using your childs disability to justify your posts is hardly a vote winner. It's your inability to learn politeness that's the problem, nothing to do with your family.

Any disability seems totally unfair. It's not a money, class, situation, race thing. Some of us deal with it better though. It never stops.

I'm sure the queen will let her use the toilet when she asks. She's kind, and understands.

"can anyone tell me why it isn't acceptable to say 'toilet'"

It's meant to be bad English to use a french/foreign word when there's a perfectly good English equivalent, hence why toilet and pardon are regarded as poor English.

Never really thought of it as a class thing. My family would be considered working class and i would always be told off for saying pardon instead of excuse me. and for saying pikey but that's because where i'm from it's a perjorative term for gypsy, hence is regarded as racist.

I agree that it is a racist term, but it is used and that's all there is to it. Same as Chav. It's like men who refer to women as tarts, slags etc. People will always call other people names.

It's not a word I understand sufficiently to use, so I don't use it. I don't think it is the opposite of toff.

I hope the Fabian society are equally uncomfortable with toff.

yeah, it's why napkin is considered better than serviette etc etc.

dates back to the Norman invasion (beef, mutton, pork - all french words because quality cooked meat was eaten by the french gentry, as opposed to sheep, cow, pig - livestock tended by the Anglo-Saxon peasantry...)

Must say, I wince when I hear serviette, but jsut because it is so ugly compared with the very lovely napkin But i work as an editor so can get obsessive about this type of thing very easily...

Just use your sleeve instead

exactement

I think it's all too easy to fall into the PC falseness regarding racism, and assuming every description is a derogatory term for something. We've had 'classist' bull*t on here today. Chavist. Pikeyest. It's ridiculous. Can a race be a race without somewhere to come from ? Surely a traveller is just that. Can I say Gypsy without getting lucky heathered to death ? Is being Scottish considered being a different race to being English (genuine question).

I vote for total equality. If you are white, middle class, work, pay taxes, don't stab people, then I think you should be treated with kid gloves like any other 'race'. The commission for Chaviness will probably have me Burberried for this, but I'll stand up for them. The upper classes, should unite, put back on their collonial/imperial war dress (after elevenses as is their right obviously) and fight off the :,,,:iii,,,,,;;; (that section was in braille for the benefit of any alleged sight disadvantaged toffs, er I mean, landed gentry, er assuming they have land..er of course which they don't have to be because they may be non-white of other origin, er...that choose to travel, er but forsake their right to move to Romany, oh...um unless they have some ...:;;;iiillo....of course, oh and available in urdu)

Chav - Wears Burberry. Drives wanky Gti. Gold. Elizabeth Duke.
Pikey - Gypsy
Elizabeth Duke - Mappin and Webb on HP (or Daddy's in the interests of equality)

I'm so sensitive to all of these things these days. I'm so proud. Thank Argos I'm still allowed to be stupidest.

Well I'm half scottish and half english so what does that make me

race is a socially derived construct with divisive connotations.has no scientific basis.Scottish is not a race, that would be erroneous

scottishmummy are you a lawyer by any chance

magnifcent7 asked is scottish a different race i answered.statement of fact.why the face sim

It is just that some of the things you say are as if you are quoting out of a book. They are, lets say, not the average kind of words used on MN. It is a bit like reading legal jargon, you have to read it slowly to actually understand what you are saying. And that is not me being thick either! It was a wondering face not a sarcastic one. Don't mean to offend. Not being funny but who in every day life says "race is a socially derived construct with divisive connotations". Please if anyone is reading this let me know if you ACTUALLY understand.

i understood it. not sure it's completely correct, but it's perfectly good english.

i do actually! that was my immediate response to M7 question.pretty much i write as i think so if you dont like my posts - fine.does not necessarily negate any of my points though