to think this woman is a cow? (topic may offend/upset)

[crazybuslady]

Was waiting for a bus yesterday, while at bus stop I saw a mother, dd (approx age 4) and grandma come to bus stop, had seen them earlier walking down the street.

DD didnt want to go on the bus she was crying saying she wanted to stay with granny. Mother mentioned to granny than dd was tired - hadnt slept that day. Mother started to wind the child up eg "you ARE going on the bus"..."noooo mummy dont want to" ..."well you are so there!"

Petty back and forth argument which was frankly rediculas, dd tried to walk away from the bus stop, the mother turned it in to an almost game, mother was laughing and chasing her but shouting swear words at her and telling her she was going to "batter you when we get in" I was Then heard a whack, and looked round to see the mum hit the child 2x. Child started sobbing - from her point of view mum was chasing her laughing next min she was being hit)

Now hittings not to my taste, but I realise some people do this so I just tried to look away - small bus stop though so not really possible.

Child was then wingey (was being ignored by mum who only spoke to her to swear at her) Child then said "I am NOT goin on bus I want to go to grannys" (I though no fekking wonder) And the mother literally dragged dd by her arm along ground. DD fell to ground sobbing, mother grabbed her collar and lifted her up by it shouting and swearing and whacked her 5 more times.

At this point bus came, I told woman if she hit her dd in my sight once more id call police. (Now in retrospect I shouldnt have said that, I should have just called, but I was furious and not thinking straight) We got on same bus mother told me to "fucking go ahead then"...so I did. (mother was now dragging child up bus by arm, I dont mean pulling I mean literally dragging, then whacking her again when she wouldnt sit on seat.

Police car was sent right away but didnt arrive in time before she got off the bus I gave a description etc. But as she got off woman threatened to "batter my face in, if she hadnt got the child with her" (I felt like saying go on then, Id rather take the pain than a poor child, then you will go to prison, child will go to foster care and be better off)

I wish Id followed them, police didnt get them If I ever see them again will phone again.

If she does that in public wtf does she do at home.

you are thretentign violence to ehr a lot

LOLOl
just leave it KM

it's not assumptions

the op described something - you either believe what people say about their lives on here

or not

why bother disbelieving ?
who has the time to think people apart from trolls make up stories?

Frankly, it would be shit if people didn't believe you Kerrymum when you talked about stuff

calm down KM with your sweeping generalisations about everyone assumptions(except yourself of course)so emmm we all polish our halo you maintain a clear impartial interpretation.really?

well maybe dont get your drawers in a twist assuming everyone else is polishing their halo

I don't give a toss about anything apart from hitting a kid 7 -8 times and swearing at it in the face

No excuse, no extenuating circs, don't give a toss whether she 'snapped' or not

Just commenting on what she actually did

i swear to god i don't understand you km. op has described the incident succinctly.

the woman hit her child many times, dragged her along, and was whacking her again.

Of course none of us here knows the whole fucking story about the mother, the family, the day she was having, the child's behaviour in general.

IT WAS A CHILD being abused. end of.

yes KM but you have plenty to say about everyone else having a halo.so just because consensus is not with you does not give you extenuating circumstances to have the hump at other responses

well thing is MN is an anecdotal narrative NO ONE actually witnesses anything, but the leap of faith is that we accept and comment

i have posted on here a few times about people seeing other's not behaving with their children in the best way and usually said 'you don't know the full story' but this is beyond that, the full story is the child was dragged, hit and sworn at. it's not on. at 4, the child is still small enough to be restrained and picked up and taken on the bus if necessary, without them being hurt.

I dont think that the actions described by the OP are reasonable methods of punishment at all.

The child was approx 4 for fucks sake, how hard is it to pick up a four year old and restrain without having to beat it.

I too would have either called the police or decked the mother myself. Animal.

I applaud the op for to letting the other mother see her dismay and concern at what was going on between her and her dd as it sounds really more than a mother at the end of her tether.

I am not 100% sure I would have called the police (would have needed to be there myself).

The mother may well do similar in public again until she is caught. She seems to have little regard for keeping up appearances making it more likely that other poeple will report her.

Or the confrontation with the OP and threat of the police may just shock her into exerting more self control in future. But the problem could continue at home

Any chance the hitting and dragging of the girl was caught on CCTV? AFAIK there is lots of CCTV coverage near bus stops and on busses. The woman might already be known to the police so they would recognise her.

I think you were very brave CBL - I'm not sure that many people would intervene ('none of our business' etc. etc.). I think that phoning the police was the right thing to do because that way someone might intervene (Sure Start, social services etc) and give this woman the help and support she obviously needs. If she's in as bad a situation as KerryMum suggests then she needs help, and this might be the point at which she gets it.

And I think the same as a lot of you - if your toddler is kicking off (and mine does, regularly, and I have no halo), you don't deal with it by swearing and violence, however much at the end of your tether you are.

I was not refering to the teacher in your case, I know of it happening. A teacher came behind the pupil to read their work and put a hand on the child's shoulder. They were done for assault. I was making an example of extreme cases.

To pick on a comment that many people have said something similar to:

"well thing is MN is an anecdotal narrative NO ONE actually witnesses anything, but the leap of faith is that we accept and comment"

Why should I assume the OP is lying? How do I know which OP is telling the truth and which is lying?

I will repeat an example I used earlier: How about if it was an elderly parent with Alzheimer?s? They?re being difficult, walking off, refusing to get on the bus and the woman started smacking her parent and dragging them? Why is it reasonable to hit a child who can?t defend them self?

It's not being judgy to know that this level of anger demonstrate4d towards a child is just plain wrong.

I have a 6 year old with SN's. she is incredibly difficult. has behaviour problems, is stubborn, will refuse to do as she is told all the time, oh i could go on. It's utterly draining looking after her some days and she tests the patience of a saint. I have lost it with her on the odd occaision, I have shouted, I have picked her up and thrown her onto her bed for time out, i have smacked her when she has done something really bad and known it was bad. But I have never, ever lost it to the extent this woman lost it today. I have a temper and struggle with my patience and I have really, really bad days and am pushed to the limit a lot, but have never treated my child in the manner this woman did today.

Something is not right there. That's beyond a bad day. That's a woman who needs some support and some help so she can enjoy her child and not lose it with her like this. And the child deserves a mum who ca restrain herself, a mum she can trust and rely on.

Tink I have mentioned the Alzheimer's comparison before and was told it isn't the same thing. Apparently elderly people have earned their share of respect and children haven't

Sorry KM, I don't know the story about your child's teacher so am going on nothing here, but being a teacher I have to ask - how do you know that your child's teacher wasn't experiencing all the stresses and pressures that you use to excuse this woman? A teacher obviously has no right to put their hands on a child in a violent way (if that's what happened in your case), but do you have any idea of the kind of stress that teachers often have to endure as a matter of course?

Hate to see people hit their kids. My daughter can be a real handful at times and I'm sure I must sound like a narky old cow sometimes when I'm trying to deal with her but I would never smack her or swear at her. Glad you phoned the police. No extenuating circumstances justify this behaviour.

I think that as an adult witnessing such physical abuse on a child, you have a moral duty to report such incidences. If you are reacting 'over the top' then so be it- who can complain in such a case??
Surely its better to know for sure that a child is not suffering such appaling abuse, rather leave it to 'someone else to worry about'

I cant see what the problem is here. The OP was right.

In the end, it doesn't matter what stress you're under, it's still a choice you make when you hit a child. One smack in the heat of the moment is forgivable but 7 or 8 thumps and dragging a child along the floor? On what planet is that acceptable?
Yanbu OP and I hope I would have done the same in your shoes.

LOL don't you think SWers involve the police? Do you think SWers have emergency vehicles so they can come straight out and arrest someone on a bus?

Even if a SW saw it they couldn't do much without either the police to make an arrest or a court to give them a warrant.

But StealthPolarBear, what if their child has had a really bad day and they're being really difficult? Why shouldn't the child lose their temper with them?

There are a couple of posters here who maintain:

that the OP may be exaggerating

that the woman is excused if she did not know any better/was brought up in the same way herself

that the woman is excused if she was tired/had had a bad day/was struggling with the shopping

that if it was a one off it shouldn't really count, as she should be judged on the whole of her parenting

Can I just ask: if I were to post in the Relationships section that my dh had just hit me 7 or 87 times, would you be equally eager to excuse him:

if he had had a bad day

if he was tired

if he didn't know any better

if he didn't make a habit of hitting me all the time

Or would you just tell me that I must be exaggerating?

I can sort of see why controlled smacking of a child as part of discipline is seen as different from wife-beating. But when it comes to totally losing it- why is it more excusable to lose it with a small child than with an adult?

My experience of the relationship forum is that no excuses are made for a man who loses his temper and lashes out, whether it's a child or an adult who gets hit. So why are women excused? Is there some underlying idea of women as creatures unable to control their emotions? But we expect the blokes to do it? Do they never have bad days?