to think this woman is a cow? (topic may offend/upset)

[crazybuslady]

Was waiting for a bus yesterday, while at bus stop I saw a mother, dd (approx age 4) and grandma come to bus stop, had seen them earlier walking down the street.

DD didnt want to go on the bus she was crying saying she wanted to stay with granny. Mother mentioned to granny than dd was tired - hadnt slept that day. Mother started to wind the child up eg "you ARE going on the bus"..."noooo mummy dont want to" ..."well you are so there!"

Petty back and forth argument which was frankly rediculas, dd tried to walk away from the bus stop, the mother turned it in to an almost game, mother was laughing and chasing her but shouting swear words at her and telling her she was going to "batter you when we get in" I was Then heard a whack, and looked round to see the mum hit the child 2x. Child started sobbing - from her point of view mum was chasing her laughing next min she was being hit)

Now hittings not to my taste, but I realise some people do this so I just tried to look away - small bus stop though so not really possible.

Child was then wingey (was being ignored by mum who only spoke to her to swear at her) Child then said "I am NOT goin on bus I want to go to grannys" (I though no fekking wonder) And the mother literally dragged dd by her arm along ground. DD fell to ground sobbing, mother grabbed her collar and lifted her up by it shouting and swearing and whacked her 5 more times.

At this point bus came, I told woman if she hit her dd in my sight once more id call police. (Now in retrospect I shouldnt have said that, I should have just called, but I was furious and not thinking straight) We got on same bus mother told me to "fucking go ahead then"...so I did. (mother was now dragging child up bus by arm, I dont mean pulling I mean literally dragging, then whacking her again when she wouldnt sit on seat.

Police car was sent right away but didnt arrive in time before she got off the bus I gave a description etc. But as she got off woman threatened to "batter my face in, if she hadnt got the child with her" (I felt like saying go on then, Id rather take the pain than a poor child, then you will go to prison, child will go to foster care and be better off)

I wish Id followed them, police didnt get them If I ever see them again will phone again.

If she does that in public wtf does she do at home.

KerryMum, you dont seem to understand that your approach would only have helped at the moment, if at all. The woman would have got help to calm her temper there and then. But what about the child? What help did she get? None. . It shocks me that you cant see that. Where is the kindness to the child?

Ok. I have to say that I agree with Kerrymum. I don't excuse the mother's behavior. But surely it is more productive and more likely to produce a good result for the child to figure out a way to get parenting help to the mother. Maybe the OP could have offered to help instead of chastising.

?whatever happened to the benefit of the doubt. Is that applicable in British law? Or is it a uniquely American thing.?

Since when are we the law enforcers? If we see a fight in the street or someone breaking into a house we should give the benefit of the doubt and not call the police? It?s the police?s job to decide if a crime has been committed, not ours!

?The op if she really wanted to be helpful could have maybe made an effort to defuse the situation. Not through confrontation or calling the cops but a little KINDNESS of her own.?

So now it?s the OP?s fault?! She showed a lot more kindness than anyone else at the bus stop. How do you know if she hadn?t done that the woman hadn?t still made her threats to the interfering whatsit?

?no one said anything about shoving sweets in her kids face?

?How about this? How about when the op saw the woman struggling to talk her child round to getting on the bus she went over and offered her a sweet?

Own question answered.

?I would have gotten off at same stop as her and found her address and then contacted ss.?

If they came out, because lets face it you can?t say you are someone of import, they would have to contact the police anyway because an assault had been committed, but if it was a one off and they didn?t come out straight away, because lets face it, it can?t have been that bad if you called them first, the evidence would have been lost.

?but collison a report would be made. I'm assuming it would go on record??

No there won?t be a report this time because no one was apprehended and no one is going to be apprehended. How would they ever link it to her if she comes into the radar again?

It?s nice to see a nice fluffy view of Social Workers for a change, actually going to the extreme opposite of the normal view of them. They wouldn?t just do a home visit, there was an assault, they have to inform the police and they have to investigate. If the police had come out they would have called SS. Whichever way you look at it, it is the same thing, but the police deal with things quicker!

Kimi, it?s made me more appreciative of what I have. I look at my daughter all the time with awe, it took me so much and cost so dear to get her here. I believe in a way those of us who lose children are privileged to know how dear our children are. It makes me so angry when I see people not appreciating their little ones. After my first daughter died Mum couldn?t go back to work for awhile, she said she felt like she could have smacked some of her parents.
When is assault not assault? When it is the Parents Responsibility Right to chastise their child anyway they see fit.

that poor child

OOH my god this thread has gone down the road of making this woman out to be a serial child abuser

no-one on here knows this woman from adam.

This was one incident reported by one person who might or might not have over-reacted and certainly doesnt have any understanding of what else is going on in this family's life

I know its wrong to hit your child several times , hard and in public but like I say we have heard one side of this story. For all we know other witnesses may have seen it as not nearly as bad as the op

I think you have all painted this woman out to be a monster with no real facts

I say stop the witch hunt

It might be a one off but it was a one off assault, you wouldn't ignore it if it was an adult she hit or a senile parent, so why is it ok to assault a child because you're the parent and it's a one off.

As this is on the internet it's all quite abstract. Whether the OP got her facts wrong or not, the advice remains the same.
It seems to me though that it would be hard to misinterpret that sort of thing - dragging, multiple hitting and shouting and swearing. I try not to hit DS (tbh it's not been difficult so far as he is only 14mo) but if it ever happened that I did - in private or public - I think i would then be shocked,, not carry on the attack.

Would you be saying it was an overreaction if this was 2 adults? One adult and a frail elderly person?

Isn't for the police to investigate and prosecute, if appropriate, or refer to child protection?

I would have done the same as OP.

Here we have an account of a child been hit,shouted at generally mistreated.it alarmed CBL enough that she called police

so if this had been
some adult man hitting shouting sayng "i am going to batter you" to a

Pensioner/Woman/child/smaller vulnerable person

would you say
Oh having a bad day/extenuating circumstances
dont judge or label him as serial abuser

honestly would you so readily excuse a man who shouted, threatened, was menacing?i think if the only details changed on this thread had been that the child became a woman and the same abuse was described folk would rightly be incandescent

is a child life less commodity?
the mum may not be a serial abuser (we dont know) but in this instance she was abusive. so is once, twice..etc ok. what point would it be serial and alarming. i actually think one time is too many

would you label those who were shocked enough to act

has halo and is holier than thou
do-gooders are so good 99.99999% whilst the rest of us struggle

anyway i shall return to my halo and allegedly charmed life and hope to god i continue to be appalled when i read about such child abuse

If the mother behaves like that in public towards her child, how does she treat her when there is no one else around?

shouting at a child is not child abuse and neither is picking them up and dragging them onto a bus..

if you have to be somewhere and the child doesnt get on the bus sometimes manhandling a 4 year old is the only way to get them on board

i agree if the child was being thumped repeatedly then someone should have done something but like i say we only have one subjective view of this incident

I just think the way some people on here have reacted on here is ridiculous eg katie saying the child could have been dead before SS got there... dead?? dead??

losing the plot with a stubborn 4 year old who is throwing a public tantrum is not in 99.99% of cases going to lead to murder

thanks for posting crazybuslady- your courage in calling the police gave me the imeptus (sp?) to mention to the teacher today when I saw a nursery aldy being rough with a classmate of ds3's

shouting at a child in a threatening manner is indeed child abuse

and yes this is only one story but hey so i all on MN. the point is you give advice based on the OP.

i think it's an indicator of just how much progress we've made as a society that the o/p was confident enough to phone the police.

Years ago this kind of abuse was labelled 'discipline'. my own mother used to whack me incredibly hard and i was always told i deserved it. no-one ever intervened. I wish they had.

shame the police didn't catch up with the mother though.

Hi janitor

I dont think calling a 4 year old a cunt is right.. I dont swear at my son but then I dont think its worth reporting to the police or ss

As regards hitting.. I am afraid I cant give you a definitive answer. I think there are a times and places where one sharp spank can help.

I think though if you are gonna hit your child it should be measured and thought about .. lashing out when angry is wrong and can lead to the child being hurt.

I wouldnt hit my child in public for fear of this kind of reprisal..

"katie saying the child could have been dead before SS got there... dead?? dead??"

I wonder if anyone saw Victoria Climbie being hit in public?

That was the name I was looking for Stealth!

If only someone had had the courage to speak out on behalf of Victoria C then she might have survived and had a nicer life.

OK, some people might have become a little OTT here but if you actually bother to read the thread and see what the mother actually did to her dd then you will understand why CBL did what she did.

I simply cannot understand KM's reaction to this when she was calling her ds's teacher every name under the sun a little while ago for something that was not half quarter as bad as this.

some people do not deserve to have children and this thread has really given me the confidence to report something if I see fit to do so.

Hope you are OK CBL.

well I guess I am awful mother ...

shall leave you to your busy body withch hunt

Crazy lady - I think you did the right thing in the circumstances and very brave of you too.

I am quite amazed by Kerry Mums response tbh..am I not right in thinking you were abused as a child - how many people turned a blind eye to that thinking it was "one off" or your abuser was having a "bad day"

Its very sad that anyone who gives a damn about anyone else these days is jumped on, made to feel in the wrong and told they should keep out of it...yeah society today is sooo much better since we are all minding our own business isnt it

I doubt very much she is hauled off, locked in a cell and her child handed over to SS - I think their first response will be to help the mother and assess the situation wont it.

ok frasersmummy - thanks for your input - you have been really helpful.

fraser: ''I wouldnt hit my child in public for fear of this kind of reprisal.. ''

Oh well, glad we cleared that up

I think in a lot of ways though, KM does this on purpose.

She has an opinion that is soooooo way out but it does get her a lot of attention.

Let's not focus on her anymore - the OP was perfectly within her rights to do what she did and she did the right thing.