To think neurodivergence is more common than neurotypical?

[PrincessOfPreschool]

I'm expecting to get hammered for this and it's only based on my sample size of family, extended family/ in laws, friends, people I work with, children I work with but...

I know a LOT of people who I would describe as 'neurodivergent', I think more than I know who are 'neurotypical'. Some of these are diagnosed (more of the younger generation, a few of my generation and none of my parents' generation - in their 80s). Obviously it's a spectrum so only a very few are significantly impacted in their daily lives (unable to go to school or work) but I can definitely see strong traits in my generation and older, many coping mechanisms being used throughout their lives. I do have quite a high awareness due to training in my work, and knowing friends family with ADHD and autism.

I wondered if it's just my family and the people I know, or if neurodivergence is actually really common to the point of being equally, or even more common, than neurotypical. Why is called divergent if it's actually quite typical?

What's your experience?

It's 3% of under 20s diagnosed and others on top self diagnosed. So still a lot of people

It’s down to Self diagnosis, fashion trends, trying to claim benefits and a need to have a victimhood narrative.

it unfortunately makes things worse for genuinely neurodiverse people, of whom there are far fewer than the number who profess to be so.

Mine. As far as I know. I also don't have any friends who are autistic or have ADHD. That I know of.

It is not about claiming benefits at all. The people I know who are waiting for assessments are already on benefits, because they have been struggling for years already with either no diagnosis, or the incorrect one. They just want a name for how they are struggling. It is more about self understanding and forgiveness. Nothing to do with money.

I would be tempted to say that ND in some aspects is actually "normal"!

Personally I think every single human is on a spectrum. Everyone is different and good at different things.

The issue is how society is set up where ND people are therefore not in a level playing field for many every day life things.

My cousin is autistic and works in finance and earns a fortune. Hopeless at relationships but an amazing analytical mind. Never had a girlfriend.

If it wasnt for the autistic brain we would be without so many amazing inventions in life.

Mine, and the majority of families I know.

In an entirely unscientific survey, I've just counted up the first 50 family members/ friends I could think of, of all ages. 6 are diagnosed ND (not necessarily autistic - this includes dyspraxia, dyslexia and auditory processing disorder) and I suspect another 1 may be ND. So around 86% are NT.

It’s nonsense that some people are ND and some people are NT. I say this as someone with 2 diagnoses and a child with 1. I think the best thing you get out of a dyslexia assessment is your broader profile of strengths and weaknesses (e.g. in working memory, IQ, visual spatial reasoning). I think everyone should do this and understand their strengths and weaknesses. I think people who are NT are probably people that are average-high in most areas rather than low or spiky. But ultimately everyone is different. Labels like autism, ADHD, dyslexia are just names we have given to people with similar profiles.

I think we need more categorisation with ND. The thing with an autism diagnosis is that everyone is different. One person might be non verbal and unable to recognise the signs they need the loo. Another will feel like an outsider in social situations and have an obsessive interest in, say, Concorde but can speak well and hold down a good job. Yet both people are in the same category. A distinction between more profound or complex manifestations of autism and cases where one is more 'functional' (and I know that's an awful way to describe it) would be incredibly useful.

IIRC, the diagnosis of Asperger's syndrome was retired because Asperger was a Nazi. Fair enough but this spectrum idea does seem as though everyone has been lumped in together.

I don’t think the diagnosis of Asperger’s was removed because a German dr in ww2 Germany was a member of the Nazi party (as were all Drs who wanted to practice in hospitals I think?). It was an attempt to consolidate three very similar diagnosis Autism, Asperger’s and PDD(NOS).

I think people should stop self diagnosing and then discussing their autism or other ND as though they have a diagnosis.

Not just because he was a Nazi

Asperger's was based on him categorizing which autistic people were worthless and should be put to death and which could potentially be trained to wb financially useful. Autism could be tolerated in a person who could help decode the human genome but not in someone non verbal.

The problem it rodents is that it devalues the profoundly autistic person by dehumanizing them but also categories the worth of the Asperger's individual because they can be monetized, which is also dehumanizing because their worth relies on them functioning with little to no support because the need for support might mean you belong in the gas chamber.

Autism is a difference in how the person brain processes the world around them, that can present in different ways and alongside other conditions like learning difficulties. All in autism is probably a collection of many different conditions which will hopefuyone day be more fully figured out. Science is always evolving but the issues with Asperger's diagnosis is valid.

I think it’s genetic and you’re also drawn to people who are similar to you.

If ND people were the majority, don't you think they'd have designed systems (education, employment etc) that suit them better? Ones that were more inclusive in the first instance?

The reason they experience the difficulties they do is because the world is made for and by neurotypical people - because they are the majority.

The constant belittling of "self diagnosed" ND people is particularly cruel given that you have to wait years for an assessment leading to an actual diagnosis. People often "self diagnose" while enduring that wait, in fact in some scenarios are advised to.

I don't have a single family member, friend or acquaintance or any of their families who claim to have autism or ADHD.

The idea that someone I know would self
diagnose something like that is absurd.

I can’t help but feel that for many it is now used as an excuse to avoid having to address behavioural or ability related issues. This of course creates significant issues for the genuine cases which no longer stand out and as a result likely receive less support.

As an actually ND person, this is not my experience. Throughout work and life I've felt like a alien due to most people being around me being NT. I've got loads of ND friends now but it's through actively seeking them out and due to the hobby I have.

If you’re in England then you can get an assessment via right to choose in just a few weeks for either ASD or ADHD.

Being neurodivergent is about as common as having red hair.

Do you know a lot of people with red hair? Probably, because it's not that unusual.

Do the majority of people have red hair? No, it's the rarest hair colour, even if you live in Scotland (country with highest redhead percentage of population).

I think people often find it difficult to compute that a small percentage of a big number is still a big number.

You’re not wrong OP. If you can’t function as an adult without support then that’s more serious and debilitating than every 3rd person being ND. If you have a job, children, run a house then call it what you like but it’s absolutely not in the same ball park as those who won’t ever be fully functioning adults. We need different words to describe the level of independence people have (or don’t and never will have!)

It makes a mockery out of those who are absolutely disabled and won’t ever be independent, when they fall under the same category as someone who has the job, the kids, the partner, the house. It’s absolutely unbelievable and hopefully the next DSM will be adjusted accordingly

The ones who want it all to remain under the same umbrella funnily enough are the ones who are independent and can 100% advocate for themselves abs argue the toss that they are equally struggling!

Everyone is different! This broadening of the definition of nd is not helpful to those who are disabled by their nd. If over 50% are nd by definition they are not diverse they are the norm!

Absolutely. Any life struggle is put down to being ND. I think there are genuinely people out there who think the NT just breeze through life with absolutely no struggles whatsoever. As if we all love crowds, queuing, noise, surprises etc. nothing ever bothers us, annoys us, we can cope with anything. Just because we're NT.

@Velumental i think though that is very specific. To say you expect other asd kids to struggle in exactly that way so you would notice. What i see in the asd kids i know,
is yes they may not eat the food at parties but dont make a dance of it so people other than parents dont realise they never see them eat.
Older kids have done halloween and know what to expect.
But.., they may take the sweets and actually they dont eat most of them.
they may decide not to go at all
they may get too cold and refuse to put a coat on
they may go with parents (and maybe a small group)as even though the rest of their year are only with kids they dont want to

Likewise the signs i think that maybe asd can also be a child who doesnt want to
do afterschool clubs
do residential
doesnt want to spend a lot of time on playdates or have friends over

there are a lot of nd kids.
there are a lot of imo misdiagnosed kids
it is surprising how strong the nd traits are.
My dc ggm has at least 5 adhd descendants. Yet doesnt seem nd themself.
However there does seem with some link in some of those with low academic ability/motivation. So could be a co-occurrence with something like dyslexia.
However it is also true that imo a scattered parent who has adhd is more likely to create an environment to have more adhd trait kids. As they find discipline hard. They may be younger parents.

i do see kids diagnosed asd though locally who have no struggle being invited to anything, popular, go to all clubs. Go to shops independently and on the bus easily.

logical fallacy, yes that's the one!

I do think nd would change the world. But they would be changing it to conflicting thibgs. As perhaps some love xmas songs blasted from nov1 and others hate it.
i personally would like to change schools
i would ensure homework is marked
i would expel some more troublemakes
and move more severe sen to special schools
i would drop back kids who are severely behind
i would set secondary for more subjects.
i would automatically allow extra time for diagnosed asd/adhd. However i would also make the standard exams longer as im sure ours used to be
i would have more practical subjects for gcse or availability so if they want to do pe gcse they can
i would chill out xmas at school

there is a lot of music in places where its not needed or expected causing issues eg some pools where you cant wear ear defenders.

i think there numbers probably isnt surprising as adhd people for eg probably have more than 2 kids.. as numbers of kids nt people have drops. More sensible people thinking they cant afford 3 for eg.

Wondering if people who dont know any are
unobservant?
dont actually ask kids friends at school
in an area where people have kids at more typical 28-30 age range rather than young or old.
a lot of gifted kids can also have nd tendencies

Being neurodivergent is about as common as having red hair.
Do you know a lot of people with red hair? Probably, because it's not that unusual.
@BertieBotts
I've been wracking my brains but I think I know only one person with red hair (ex colleague)! My DC used to go to school with a red headed child. I teach in 2 different settings and not one child has red hair or even strawberry blonde (lots of blonde, light brown, dark brown, black - all fairly equal). Maybe it depends a bit where you live.

Wow so you’re going round diagnosing everybody you know yourself with zero expertise, zero indepth knowledge of their lives and zero diagnosis qualifications as regards yourself. YABVU

Also I would like to mount out being ND isn’t a diagnosis it’s a mop up expression. Having an autism, dyspraxia or ADHD diagnosis is far more nuanced.