To think it’s obvious which children don’t attend nursery?

[Omgshesaidthat]

I met up with a group of mum friends yesterday and it just got me thinking how to me it’s so obvious when a child doesn’t go to nursery.

From the group, only one mum didn’t go back to work after her maternity leave - at the time I felt quite envious but seeing her boy compared to the rest of the group now they are all 2 has made me think that I’m not actually so sure that being at home is such a good thing.

For example he’s not potty trained yet whereas the rest of the group are well on their way or totally dry and his speech is nowhere near as good as the others - even with things like numbers & alphabet, DD is parroting it all back to me whereas this little boy isn’t yet.

We did an organised activity and all the other children in the group sat nicely & listened and then participated whereas my friend’s boy just did his own thing the whole time.

My friend is a good mum and she does take him to playgroup and sets up little activities for him at home so it’s not like he’s just sat doing nothing all day. But it just felt quite apparent that you can’t recreate that nursery setting at home and the impact of children being in that environment and surrounded by other children is huge for their development.

OP I’m guessing this is your first child…. 🙄

Exactly, let's hope op's dc doesn't carry on this trait. With friends like this, who needs enemies.

Exactly!

You are just making yourself sound worse and worse here.

Chances are if the child is so noticeably behind / unable to engage in activities etc then they'll either catch up at some point or receive a diagnosis at some point.

There is absolutely no need to be so self righteous about it.

That poor mum probably went home yesterday and felt like shit after seeing the difference in her child.

Your kids are very young and there are several schools of thought supporting the fact children benefit more by being at home with parents until they are 3.

Look at it from a different perspective - this child still has 2+ years they can attend nursery and pre-school, whereas none of the parents who put their kids in nursery from 6/9/12 months old old can ever get that time back?

You’re talking nonsense imo. I’ve worked in childcare and there was a huge range of abilities and personalities in every setting that I worked in. Some were advanced, some were average and some were delayed just as you’d get in just about every group of similarly aged children. I could not possibly pick out children who attend nursery and who don’t because they’re all individuals. I do agree with those who mention that childcare is not beneficial to children until they’re 3(Exceptional circumstances apply) and even then I don’t think it’s absolutely essential.

FWIW I attended nursery and I still had a much harder time adapting to school than my best friend who never attended nursery, did and I now know that’s partly personality but also I now know that it’s because I’m autistic and dyspraxic. I was very well behaved but it was a huge and overwhelming shock for me for the first six months or so and even though I’d attended nursery and learned to read at 3 I was much less physically adept than most of the class, again due to the dyspraxia so if you’d met me with all of your bias and assumptions, you’d probably have thought I hadn’t attended nursery when I did.

Oh gosh, imagine your 2 yr old not being independent....

You're wrong about me too. I put all my children in childcare and worked throughout, like the vast majority of people on MN. The conversations about childcare and costs and hours etc are not happening by accident.

However, I can still see that even across my own data set there was massive variation in development and specific issues had their own impacts. The outcomes as teens and at gcse were not closely correlated to hitting developmental milestones early either.

Anyone thinking their 2 yr old is more verbal/dextrous/agile/literate due to exposure to commercial childcare is deluded.

And that's ok. I can't say I prioritised sitting nicely and listening at two, but I wouldn't have taken my kids to an activity at that age of I felt that they couldn't participate or might disrupt things.

Because they are lazy and want school to do it at reception. My child started school nursery this September (he is 3,5). 31 kids and only two potty trained. Staff is going crazy by 40-50 bags with pee/poo clothes daily. Even when they spent whole day asking kids if they want to pee, taking them to toilet every 20mins, - parents put nappy as soon as they're back home.
If child has no SEN, I would feel I failed parenting if my child wouldn't be potty trained after 3.

Dm was overly ecstatic that I was so independent from such a young age. Funnily enough, now we're estranged.

Stop beating up other mothers. My ds didn't start nursery untill he was 3, then it was school nursery for half days. He potty trained at almost 3 because he wasn't ready, he wasn't ready for a lot of things, and I'm a great believer in letting them do things when they are ready not when other busy body mums think they are ready. He did average in primary then in year 6 he was top of the class, did amazing in high school and A levels achieving 3 A*s and is now in university. Piece of advice for you, when a child is toilet trained has no bearing actual life.

Right, so if in a few years time it becomes apparent that her son has a much better attachment with his Mother or that long term, academically he does better than any of your children, will you go back to feeling guilty?

It is always best for a child to remain with a primary parent for as long as possible. Of course it is. We like to say otherwise because we feel guilty for having children to hand them over to a nursery for the majority of the weekdays.

My children went to Nursery because me and their father had to work btw. We felt all of the emotions but thats all they were. We battled through and never judged other children to make ourselves feel better about our decisions. That'll come back and bite you.

The judgement of this little boy and his mum from you is really quite awful. All children develop differently.

They don't need to go to nursery before the age of two for developmental purposes but many need to go for practical reasons.

From the age of 2.5/3, it does actually benefit them to go to a pre-school nursery.

My 2.5yo has never been to nursery, neither of my kids did.

he is far further ahead speech wise than any other kid we meet his age. As was my daughter. But he is 1:1 with me all day, chatting. He talks about emotions, I get him to explain what’s wrong, I model lots of behaviour etc

He is fully potty trained and has been since July. He’s almost exclusively used the toilet for a poo since 20 months old. Because I have the time to spot his cues, teach him the language, let him come into the toilet with me so he can see it’s what we what to do, etc. I also was able to spend all summer nappyless at home during the heatwave, putting him on the potty.

He also sits fine at a table, though I won’t pretend he is an angel. If there’s food or an interesting book, he’ll sit there nicely for a time.

I will say both mine have been very shy, I think as a result of not going to nursery. I do know plenty of kids at nursery and I do think they develop independence/social skills that bit earlier. But only 6 months or so. though, that said. My daughter was a born 3 months before the pandemic hit, so we literally kept out of everyone’s way for most of her first 2 years. Social distancing, wearing masks etc.

it was also hard to teach sharing when I only had one kid who’d never had to share.

I will say another drawback is that they expect my attention 24/7 and for me to solve every little issue.

I think - like with everything- it’s swings and roundabouts

All kids are different, my daughter had no choice but to put her son in nursery, he's 2 1/2 now and his most notable achievements so far are being able to fart on demand and go cross eyed!

Exactly, and to make an entire thread about it makes me feel op is a little bitter.

At 2 mine didn’t go to any sort of activity without a parent around. We went to a party for the child of a long term friend and the other guests were all children from their nursery. I was shocked at how aggressive and violent the other children were, not nicely socialised at all. Far worse at sharing than my dc who when they interacted with other children had much more adult supervision and told them to share etc.

But now they are all adults and have turned out fine - at 2 it was just a development stage and at the party there was probably a 6 month age gap from youngest to oldest and that would have a massive effect on such young children.

If I had said at that time sending children to nursery turned out violent, aggressive children based on my tiny sample size you would quite rightly have been annoyed.

Did you later confirm this, and were you correct in all cases? I'm wondering because one of my DCs (who went to nursery from 10 months) would have behaved like an absolute goblin at a toddler music group.

My nephew is 3y 2m, says a handful of words, refuses to go near the potty/toilet, can’t count, doesn’t recognise letters. He’s at nursery five days a week. My son is 2y 6m, pretty much toilet trained, has been speaking in proper sentences for a year, can count, can recognise most of the alphabet and has never attended nursery. He will attend pre-school when he is 3.
I'm not smug that my child can do all of these things though, as he’ll brings me back down to earth very quickly if I was to ever let smugness creep in. For instance, he reliably told me it was 'pissing down with rain' this morning.

Close family member has a Masters in early childhood education and paid a family member to look after her DC rather than have them attend her setting for free.

Not to say that children who do attend won’t be absolutely fine. But any developmental advantages will come likely come from the time they spend at home just as much.

One of the reasons I didn't go back to work was because we felt kids wouldn't cope in a nursury setting - pfb was extrem velcro baby and next full just as much a whirl wind- way later finally diagnosed.

But they were later reading and potty training was harder with older two - not becuase they were home but becuase there were underlying reasons.

Also my kids like most at home did pre-school before school - and did groups before that so were not at home as such - they were intracting.

There are younger kids with like same underlying condition in our family being sturggling in school one being sent home a lot. Their parents had them in childcare from babyhood as had to work - and it seems to have made later years harder not easier.

Big difference I saw helping out with pre-school was kids with sibling and those without - one with insisted on queue for play equipement ones without struggled more with that - no idea if it was just those kids though.

I can see pros and cons to both. My 2yr old doesn’t go to nursery and we have help from my mam. Shes is a very happy little girl and loves life. Her communication and confidence are really good but she isn’t great at structured activities when we go to play group and much prefers to do her own thing. She can be a little chaotic. She is still a little babied compared to friends children who go to nursery but I don’t think in a bad way. She will go to school nursery next year when she’s 3.

In terms of research, I think daycare is better if the home environment is lacking in the things children require to ensure development. Sure start/children's centres partly aimed to plug this gap but they were also keen to raise tax by getting parents back to work.

I think you'll struggle to find any research that finds better outcomes in 2 year olds who are in daycare vs fully at home as there are too many variables. Also, all daycare is not equal, and there is a massive disparity between 3 mornings at pre-school and 8-5 Monday to Friday in daycare.

Having taught reception for many years I think there are many variables and often some of the children we lose sleep about have been in nursery since six months and sometimes they have done much less or mostly been at home. I think the quality of interaction with a caregiver is key. Schools are less bothered about whether kids can recite numbers and know sounds. We're going to teach them that.

The skills that do benefit children are good language skills based on having had a language rich environment, the ability to self-toilet and social skills. Plenty of our kids are referred for SEN needs from their nursery, and they are always very appropriate referrals, so it is no 'get out of SEN needs free card'.

Also, children vary massively at 2 and sometimes those who seem 'ahead' are not viewed like this at 5. Do your absolute best with your own kids and don't compare. It's a waste of your energy in a very busy season. My DD didn't walk until she was nearly 2 and didn't toilet train until she was heading towards 3, and yet she's in the top set in all her subjects at secondary school, won all 3 of her events at sports day, is independent, confident and has lots of friends. (Yes, I did worry briefly whether she was ever planning to walk properly). It's not a competition, OP and parenting is a marathon not a sprint.

I suspect it depends on the child. And so some extent the nursery. A good home will be better than a bad nursery.

Oh what a load of bull. Have a day off.