To not have sex unless I actually want to

[OverOverOverAgain]

Me and my husband been having issues for last couple of years. We have young kids amd full time jobs and we have grown apart. We don't have much in common

Tonight we had a "chat" after a month or so of barely saying two words to each other

I've slept in spare room for months. My choice. I find it hard to sleep next to a man I barely talk to for days.

He said our lack of sex life was a driver in our issues. I said its a symptom of the issues, not the cause. He disagreed and said we should schedule sex and commit to regular sex and the closeness and love will follow

I said "but I don't want to have sex when its so frosty between us" and he said "so?". And I said "i have to want it"

He replied "well I'd rather you want to have sex but even if you dont - I'd rather you just did it anyway - because I need ti have sex, and our relationship needs it. You refusing is causing huge distance" and so on.

Im just sat here by myself at 11pm on a Sunday unable to sleep mulling it over in my head

But it feels like a really shitty thing to have said. But maybe there is a grain of truth to it. I need some advice!

Would you both agree to couples counselling?

In the old days you would stay married. But assuming there's no cultural or religious pressure to stay married, this relationship isn't going to last without sex. He will find sex elsewhere, that will piss you off and you leave, or he will decide he would rather be with affair partner or dating.

Couples counselling might save the marriage or help the exit

Fwiw, I agree with the few posters who have talked about reactive desire, and also recommend the books mentioned. Mating in Captivity is a really interesting take on this
.But his desperation and pressure are huge turnoffs - for me it would have gone too far by that point to row things back. The modern marriage contract doesn't last without sex though, not long term, so divorce is pretty much guaranteed if you really think you are done on that front unless there are cultural/religious factors at play that mean the marriage continues without sex.

Doesn't surprise me. Most men aren't exactly princes, so it's not surprising their wives get turned off by, let me see, in no particular order: Being left to do the lion's share of the domestic load; being ignored; seeing his disgusting habits; seeing him be incompetent or resistant at the things she asks him to do; letting himself go around looking unkempt and not dressing nicely; not sticking up for his wife when his family disses her. There's more, but these problems are very, very common. HOW ARE WE MEANT TO WANT SEX WITH THAT???? Mine would clip his toenails on the sofa and leave his shavings all over the bathroom sink.

Good list, I'll add talking during sex as though it's a porn movie...

Some people do say they can't feel closeness and love if there's no intimacy, but he's expecting you to have sex when you feel no closeness and don't speak for days, why does he think that the solution is for you to have to force yourself to have sex and hope love and emotions follow rather than the solution be that he tries to be closer to you in other ways like date nights etc in hopes that intimacy follows?

A big problem with his pitch is that it is just as likely if not more likely to make the connection worse and possibly even cause a sexual aversion.

No, it's not.

Also, he's a piece of shit pigman who has barely spoken a word to her in two months, has point blank refused to even bother trying date nights or to make any effort she has suggested - but still thinks he's entitled to a fuck.

She said "but I don't want to have sex when its so frosty between us" and he said "So?" "I'd rather you want to have sex but even if you dont - I'd rather you just did it anyway"

Pigman actually dared to say to her "keep sleeping in the spare room if you want but you have to start sleeping with me. Even a fucking handjob"

So he can wank his willy off to his heart's content and she needs to either tell him to find someone else to give him a "fucking handjob" while they live as flatmates, or just walk away.

Because there's no way in the foreseeable future she's going to fancy pigman ever again, or want him to have sex with her again. That's done.

And her only other option is to let pigman fuck her while she lies there like his masturbatory tool - which is what pigman would be happy with.

I feel actually sick at the notion of her having to lie there and let pigman fuck her, against her will and not fancying him in the slightest, just so he might, maybe, be a little bit less of a cunt to her at home and maybe speak more than a few words to her in a month.

I was married to a man like this. I explained that I needed affection and effort before I wanted to have sex. He didn’t care so I scheduled in sex, once a week in the vain hope that doing it regularly would bring back a feeling of connection and intimacy.

Every Friday and he would roll off the top of me and barely speak to me for the rest of the week. Affection? Ha!

God forbid I missed a week due to illness or my period. The atmosphere at home was horrific and he took it out on both me and the kids.

Then the once a week wasn’t enough, he tried to pressure me to sleep with other men and I remember thinking, I really am just a collection of holes to you, aren’t I? I point blank refused which earned me a month of the silent treatment.

When I ended it, he was incredulous. “But we just had sex two weeks ago…” I remember shouting at him that if I didn’t, he would have made my life even more miserable than it already was.

Leave. It won’t get better. In his mind, you are not a human being with needs, you only exist to meet his needs.

I get leaving is difficult. It took me years to get all my ducks in a row. Changing jobs, waiting til both kids were at school full time, saving a bit of money. But it can be done.

One of the things that hit me at the end was that if I got really sick, like a cancer diagnosis, the only concern he would have would be that I couldn’t fulfil my sex obligations. No wonder MacMillan nurses have to warn women about the risk of divorce after diagnosis.

For those that think the OPs husband is just a bad communicator or struggles to articulate his needs, he’s not, he’s actually showing her who he really is. Sexual coercion exists and these men don’t need people to make excuses for them, it’s already hard enough for the victims of this behaviour to see it for what it is.

I really think that if I was a man, my wife not wanting sex would make me deeply sad, the reason being that I would see there's really no fix. The reason for there being no fix is that I would want her to WANT to do it, and I would absolutely not want to settle for less than enthusiastic consent, freely given.

I was briefly in a kink relationship (which actually turned out to be not that kinky in practice. It was more psychological.) But we had a lot of discussions, centred around the famous contract. It consisted of SO MANY items, and we went through each one, and we both consented or nixed each one. And those discussions continued as and when. The whole relationship taught me to require Olympic levels of consent from others before I touch them, and not to engage unless I was consenting in the same way. It's not enough for someone to consent. They should be practically jumping up and down with enthusiasm for the idea, and if they aren't, it should be instantly nixed. A real kink person (even though he didn't actually practise it that much, kind of like a lapsed Catholic, which he also was) knows that kink is ALL about enthusiastic consent. Non-kink people sure could learn a lot from those folks.

I mean, surely, once you've discussed the lack of sex with your spouse, if they're suddenly up for it, it's not because they suddenly madly fancy you again, is it? It's because you've said you're not getting enough. It's not because they actually want to do it. And so I wouldn't see any way forward. I cannot imagine anything worse than entering someone's body when I know they don't really want me to. So I have to ask myself, what on earth is OP's husband thinking? How can he feel good about potential sex knowing that she's doing it for other reasons except enthusiastic consent? I really don't get it.

OP, I don't think you should do anything that you don't enthusiastically consent to. The relationship doesn't sound right. He won't romance you. You are protecting yourself not just from sex you don't want, but from a relationship that may well be bad for you.

Just get divorced its clearly over.
Sex is part of a marriage else you are just friends. You aren't even friends.

Christ alive. I am so glad you got out. Fantastic that you ended it! Wish I could have seen his face.

I'm so glad that you haven't had sex that you don't enthusiastically consent to!

I'm curious as to how your husband has dealt with it, as 13 years is a long time....does he go elsewhere? Would you "let" him? Or is he not bothered about sex either?

I stayed way too long in a marriage like this. It ended violently.

You absolutely do not have to have sex with him. You need to find a time when he’s calm and tell him the relationship is over. Good luck. 💐

I'm so sorry you were treated like this. Just awful. Thank you for giving OP a realistic look at what her life would be like if she caved to this man, just as bad as it currently is but with added non consensual sex with a man she doesn't fancy thrown into the mix. Shudder.

Pigmen don't suddenly become decent people because they have access to a woman as a masturbatory tool.

And decent men who think of women as human beings and care about their wives do not ever become pigmen just because they've not had sex in a while.

"Sexual coercion exists and these men don’t need people to make excuses for them, it’s already hard enough for the victims of this behaviour to see it for what it is." Exactly. Thank you.

I was talking only about that well-known sex difference. I wasn't saying anything about OP's relationship with that. You deny that men tend to feel emotionally close via sex, but it's well-known. Men and attachment

This is not a comment on OP's husband or situation.

No, it's not. The link you produced was just some ai blurb. It's definitely not established, at all.

And even if it was (and it's not) it's simply not relevant to this at all. What you are claiming is that men don't feel loved if they can't access a fuck. Well, maybe, maybe not. It doesn't actually matter however.

He is a pigman. Decent men don't turn into pigmen who use women as wank tools just because they feel unloved. So whether he's feeling unloved or not doesn't matter. He's still a pigman.

He barely speaks to her, has ignored all possible efforts she has made to fix this and has instructed her he wants at least a fucking handjob and that he's fine with her accepting being his masturbatory tool against her choice.

This is not "feeling unloved" this is pigman behaviour.

He's a pigman who treats her like shit. That's why she no longer fancies him.

It might have been fixable once, but since his choice was to ignore her attempts to fix things and happily sleep alone while barely speaking 2 words to her from time to time, it is no longer fixable.

And reasonable, decent men do not ever turn into pigmen just because they no longer have access to sex.

The fact that men might feel unloved (which is certainly not established) if they can't get their rocks off is not, actually, relevant in the slightest to the OP.

So please stop making excuses for pigmen. It's disturbing.

Absolutely grim.

this isn’t a case of - we’re both a bit tired but let’s make time for sex, or it won’t happen because of other life distractions.

You don’t want have sex with him, and he’s demanding sex from an unwilling partner.

He is confusing and distorting some marriage and sex counselling advice.
With couple who love each other and sex has basically fallen away, one of the suggestions is that sex is scheduled ie that the couple make time for it.
This is for a couple where both parties WANT sex but are not having it regularly and are losing a connection as a result.
This does not address your situation where you don't actually want to.
Now there are other possibilities. I didnt feel like having sex much, due to peri menopause, so I have added testosterone into my HRT regime which has helped a bit with libido. But again, I loved my DP and I wanted to feel like having sex. So again, different situation. My DP, I should add, was perfectly happy to wait for me to get back in the mood however long it took. Never demanded sex or hand jobs ! He wanted me to enjoy it and want it as much as he did.

This does not sound like you have a loving relationship. He is focused on his desire rather than asking what may help to make you want sex. You don't sound like you want to do this so please don't do anything you want to do.

He doesn’t want to go out with you.

He doesn’t want to talk to you.

He doesn’t want to show you non-sexual affection.

He just wants to screw you whilst you lie there, not wanting it. Or service him with hand jobs or blow jobs.

Your marriage is over.

The sooner you accept it and start untangling from him, the happier you and your children will be.

It’s better to have less money and a smaller home than live like this.

Add 'some' to your first two sentences and you may have a point. I dont need to feel loved to have sex and sometimes being loved is smothering and too much. Nothing in this world is simple or absolute.

I agree with much of what this person says.
It's really easy for the marriage to come last when kids ,work, life gets in the way.
Cliche maybe but I do think sex is often the glue in the marriage, not just the act but the intimacy and closeness it makes.
Marriage is a contract and if one of you removes an element that the other disagrees with things can start to fall apart, it evolves over time and communication is vital.
It must be very lonely to be constantly rejected in the one thing that should be a place of love and emotional security .
I would say this if it were husband refusing wife too there is no difference.
If there is no turning back then the right thing to do is split , life is too short to be so miserable together, but if you can still see something of what got you together.in the 1st place then it still might be worth a try.

Put it back on HIM op - ill have sex when you start treating me like a human being not a sex slave. I expect random kisses, kind words, help when you can see i am overwhelmed with things to do and being touched out by children - those are the things I NEED, if you dont want to do those things then you have to at least force yourself to do them if you want me to want to have sex with you.

Sex is important in a relationship. But so is actually talking to your spouse and making them feel like a valued person to you. Letting your wife know that you're OK with having sex with her against her will because that's basically your right is completely insane. No one should be trying to make that acceptable. I hope you leave, OP. I wouldn't feel safe with a man like that.

What an awful man.

He thinks marital rape might make you fancy him again 👀

Get your ducks in a row, OP. If you can use the spare room as your room and feel safe, then start making a plan for moving on with your life in the best way for you and the kids.

There have been times in my marriage when I took a 'use it or lose it' approach to sex with my husband, I know he needs sex to feel loved and I know sex with him is very good. He'd have been devastated if I'd told him this because me wanting him is very important to my husband.

I would want to lose it if my husband though the way your does.

What does this word soup mean?