PIP isn't fit for purpose

[Ljcrow]

I made this comment on another thread and thought I'd start a separate thread purely on this topic. This is all from my own personal experience rather than from reading/hearing anything, I'm only going off what I see day to day.
The people I know who claim PIP do not need it financially. One works full time and earns more than me (and I'm not at imminent risk of homelessness or starvation) and the young people I know literally tell me things like their PIP's come in so they're off to get a new tattoo, which they then do. They appear to have much more disposable income than me.
These are all people who can function in society by the way and as far as I can see, all PIP does is give them extra spending money, which I'm sure we'd all like.

I'm aware this won't be the case for everyone who recieves PIP but it is for the people I come into regular contact with. Which is why it needs reloooking at so it only goes to those who actually need the money for a specific purpose related to their disability.

We're not in a position as a society where we can afford to give people money who do not actually need it.
Things like this should be means tested, both in terms of whether people have enough income to live a decent life without additional benefits and in terms of what the money is actually going to be used for.
PIP is not fit for purpose and needs scrapping or totally changing.

£34 billion actually.

Last year was £25.9 billion on pip and £8 billion on dla. Not sure where your getting those figures.

There will be a few people who abuse benefits systems such as PIP, however the greater benefit it has for those in need of it outweigh that in my opinion.

No I didn't say that.

Wrong. Those forums, are there to help people know how to use the language that the DWP understands, and what the disabled person applying has to know, otherwise they could end up being given the incorrect award, or none at all. They still have to have the medical evidence, to back up what they are saying, as well as whatever disability that they are suffering from. It is like a child being tutoured to pass an exam to go to a school, for example. They have to have the knowledge in the first place, but have to know how to word things, or show that they can put that knowledge down on paper. They can fail if they don't know how to do that. Is that cheating the system to you?

Would you prefer that PIP claimants in full-time work were out of work and on the dole instead?

Its the thread title!

But how do you know that it's that money specifically spent on 'luxuries'.

As a hypothetical example
I earn 2k. 1.5k goes on all my bills, mortgage, petrol, insurance, food, childcare etc. £500 I put into savings for luxuries like holidays, days out,presents etc. And I get £300 PIP.

My £300 PIP goes on paying for an automatic car because I can't manage public transport anymore.

So you will see us having 1 holiday abroad, a few days out etc per year, and think PIP/taxpayers is paying for this. It's not, my salary is paying for this. The PIP is paying for me to be able to get to work, get to shops etc - essential activities. I am covering all our 'luxuries'. My children shouldn't have more than others because I am disabled. But they also shouldn't have less.

Exactly this - PIP is awarded on a points-scoring system against very specific criteria. You have to describe things in a very organised and precise way (remember Point Evidence Explanation in school? Sort of like a version of that)

£100 billion is for all welfare benefits received by this group inc UC, housing etc.

The £34 billion covers PIP and DLA.

You're purposely missing the entire point of my posts. I have no problem with someone claiming benefits who needs them. I will continue to express my opinion and it's not going to get me in trouble as it's a perfectly valid and reasonable one, whether it upsets you or not, which wasn't my intention by the way. If you think PIP isn't open to abuse then you're not living in the real world.

It should bd replaced by a benefit which focuses on disabled people

So tired of this rubbish. Do you know how much evidence you need to provide or how many hoops you need to jump through to get PIP? My DD gets PIP and most of that goes towards a support worker. She doesn't look disabled, but she has autism and FND (which causes seizures, fainting and drop attacks), do you think because she doesn't look disabled or because not every penny goes to her support worker she's not entitled to it.
She's 18 and she can't do half the things other 18 year olds take for granted.and the money is supposed to make her life easier not mean that ignorant people can bitch and moan about her. I'm sure (in fact I know) she would give anything to not have FND and not have to claim PIP. Her life is so restricted and a lot of people just don't know what they're talking about.

The problem is that the cost of supporting the sick and disabled has spiralled out of control, and is not sustainable in the longer term - particularly with the high growth in claimants of working age.

It cannot continue in its current form - the country will be bankrupted.

I haven’t read all the comments, so apologies if this is similar to other posts. However, I thought I would share my experience. I’m a mum to two children who are SEN, both have very high needs and are regularly deregulated and violent towards me & their dad. One is currently out of school completely. I was (technically still am) in a senior well paying role. Due. To their increasing needs and a complete lack of any meaningful support my anxiety is now sky high & I am having regular panic attacks and am on autopilot all the time. I can’t function properly & am off on long term sick. I have run out of any sick pay & it’s likely I will be dismissed very soon. I applied for PIP and was completely honest - I’ve also been diagnosed as Audhd myself. It was decided that I do not meet the criteria and scored a 0 on all counts as I can safely look after my children apparently. It’s really tough to get PIP and I can’t imagine people who genuinely don’t need it meeting the extremely high bar. I cannot afford any type of therapy for myself & im also paying out about £80 a month just on my prescriptions. Its awful to be in this situation.

Why are you ignoring all the posts from people like me, explaining how spending money on things has nothing to do with needing pip?

You’ve started this thread but refused to engage with any post explaining that pip is meant to help cover the additional costs of a disability so the person can have the same disposable income as anyone else in their position - so they can spend their money on holiday and and luxuries, like everyone else.

Funnily enough the welfare bill is over half is taken up with the state pension. Yet if people say we cannot afford to continue to pay state pension as its spiralling out of control (which it is as theres more elderly than young people) people are up in arms over it.

Yep.

DLA here as my son is a child but I received a lot of advice and support to help with the forms for similar reasons including a Facebook group. That doesn't make my child any less disabled, it just means that the forms are overwhelming and confusing to many parents.

As long as facts are stated and you have evidence to back it up, I really don't see the issue at all.

My neighbours both receive PIP (genuinely can't see what their illnesses are) and the mother bought her daughter a car with it. (obviously she was able to save). So it does absolutely happen. It's an income replacement.

I have chronic anaemia, fibroids and asthma, and have on occasion had to give up jobs because I kept leaking heavily on the bus to work. I literally couldn't function. No PIP or any other award was ever approved so I had to go without.

My partner on the other hand has Crohns which meant he couldn't work for a few years and PIP was a lifeline for him, as well as me taking over all bills.

Scenario:
Sally and Joan both work a job which pays £2k a month. Sally takes the bus to work, costing her £100 per month. Joan is disabled and cannot take the bus. She has to drive to work and park for the day. This costs £300 a month - too much to cover out of her salary. However, in-work disability benefits are used to pay for it, enabling Joan to remain in the workforce, paying taxes, rather than being on out-of-work benefits too.

I take your view here OP. I think though you are missing the point.PIP is given to people who would genuinely struggle OW.Taxis for the disabled /or who would genuinely nor cope with buses /tubes and so on.Some one is entitled to a Tattoo occcasionally you know! Most of us on here are also taxed . means testing is cruel and degrading .In its purest form ,my Nans friend who was struggling in the 30s and asked for "help" was treated to a visit ,she was told to get rid of her Budgie !Another relative(widowed) asked for help with her childrens costs ,Was told No money avaliable ,but they could take her children into care! She replied "No thank you ,we will all starve together !)

There are a lot of extra expenses associated with a disability. I’m sure some get pip who do not have any associated expenses or could cover them themselves. If it was means tested that it would cost more to administrate than would be saved.
I have been entitled to claim but haven’t as I do not have a financial need and would hope others do the same.

I'm not ignoring, there are a lot of posts and it's hard to respond to them all. They're interesting points you make and I'm taking it all on board.

If you are paying that much in prescriptions, maybe look at a pre payment certificate. It's about £130 a year and covers all prescriptions

Yes the Family who are in receipt of UC despite working should just hand in receipts monthly to make sure they are spending "properly "

Like PIP? Which is a benefit which focuses purely on disabled people -

unless you are a MNetter and know multiple fakers who allow you to look into their banking apps