PIP isn't fit for purpose

[Ljcrow]

I made this comment on another thread and thought I'd start a separate thread purely on this topic. This is all from my own personal experience rather than from reading/hearing anything, I'm only going off what I see day to day.
The people I know who claim PIP do not need it financially. One works full time and earns more than me (and I'm not at imminent risk of homelessness or starvation) and the young people I know literally tell me things like their PIP's come in so they're off to get a new tattoo, which they then do. They appear to have much more disposable income than me.
These are all people who can function in society by the way and as far as I can see, all PIP does is give them extra spending money, which I'm sure we'd all like.

I'm aware this won't be the case for everyone who recieves PIP but it is for the people I come into regular contact with. Which is why it needs reloooking at so it only goes to those who actually need the money for a specific purpose related to their disability.

We're not in a position as a society where we can afford to give people money who do not actually need it.
Things like this should be means tested, both in terms of whether people have enough income to live a decent life without additional benefits and in terms of what the money is actually going to be used for.
PIP is not fit for purpose and needs scrapping or totally changing.

where did you get this information from?

in particular, where did you read that the Uk is in a worse situation than other countries? It must be very difficult/impossible to compare one country with another due to different systems, practices, culture, age profiles etc etc

Yes, and that can be appropriate depending on the situation. If they can't use public transport or need support to manage danger awareness etc.

Yes rhis will be my son he can walk for miles ,run jump ,very physicslly able but at 16 has the cognitive ability of a toddler he cant even speak so theres no way he can plan a journey and travel independently

There was a genuine call for a return to the workhouses on at least one thread not so long ago. It's enough to make your blood run cold.

Some of the usual suspects who post on these threads need to crack open a history book or two imo.

I’ve been helping a neighbour of mine who is 40 with stage 4 bowel and bladder cancer to claim what she is entitled to. She’s never claimed anything in her life and honest to god the hoops you have to jump through to get something as a person genuinely in need have been horrifying. She had a job which she cannot currently do due to her illness but she’s been hounded by universal credit about return to work interviews, she didn’t get any support for the first 4-5
months of her illness and we had to fill in 44 pages of evidence to get her PIP. So it amazes me how people who are as you say able to lead full lives, can come up with 44 pages of justification. It’s crazy.

I will never understand how this supposedly happens. I had to send off my entire life’s worth of medical records to even be considered for pip. And it’s fuck all tbh. It isn’t worth the intrusion.

You are. But it isn’t as black and white as people think if they don’t actually claim.

My ds has a degenerative neuron muscular condition.

he can sometimes walk - sometimes not.

he drives an adapted (auto) car as sometimes he can straighten his R leg and sometimes he can’t. He cannot feel his left one below the knee so isn’t allowed to drive a manual.

His PIP gets spent regularly on Swimming and gym membership. Sometimes on ordering food in.
looms like luxury but sometimes I’m not around to cook for him and because of a tremor it’s not safe to do it himself. From the outside he’s ordering over eats. The truth is different. The swimming and gym help maintain what function he has. For some it’s a luxury - for him it’s a necessity.

Sometimes it’s spent on socks. £14 for 3 pairs of white sports socks that can be worn with hai splints and are reinforced heel and toe and help maintain a regular heat to his foot he cannot feel. Then winter socks are £15 a pair as he needs proper thermal ones - again - due to the fact he can’t register if his foot is cold or not and that creates a danger.

So you can translate what people tell you are make it sound like a luxury b it the truth is for many that extra is a necessity.

Someone getting a tattoo could be using that as therapy because a tattoo helps their MH. They could spend it on a therapist instead but that doesn’t always do what the alternative achieves.

The system will always be different for some than others, benefit some more than others and seem unfair. But there has to be a system. And not all systems can be changed to make it equal for everyone.

technically I could claim PIP for chronic cluster headaches (I’m in remission now). I chose not to because the system is so adversarial and I believe that for everyone one who “knows” someone who “doesn’t need it” ITO there’s someone out there not claiming.

I worked for many years supporting lots of people from differing backgtounds with chronic physical illness and mental illness, and they had to pardon the pun - jump through hoops for very little money. Also they had to supply lots and i mean lots of medical evidence phychiatrist letters, consultants letters, xrays, scans lists of disgnosis and medications they were on, and then an in person consultation. It took up to a year for paperwork to be filed and a decision to be made with no guarantee of money at the end of it. Walk a mile in someone elses shoes before you pass judgement i say.

There was a court case which resulted in the, to me very reasonable, decision that you can’t discriminated against physical and mental illness this higher rate with mobility can be awarded to anyone ill enough.

I do think there is an issue with the support for young people specifically and an issue where instead of the support they need m, young people who struggle because of their adhd or autism are transferred their pip at 16. I have seen addicts made by this decision which is increasing vulnerability rather than decreasing it. I work with this group so see more young pip claimants than average. I think there is a further problem with the lack of funding for people who need more care still, people for whom pip doesn’t touch the sides.

Luckily, it won’t ever happen. The costs and thoughts of the chaos alone will prevent it. 😂

"Hello is that Joe Bloggs interpreters? I've got an appointment on x date and I'd like to book someone to sign for me please. Payment you say? Well I don't have any actual money but I've got a benefits prepay card. Hello? Hello?"

So unless the person that you're paying for the service, actually takes them, prepay cards aren't going to be worth the plastic they're made from when it comes to accessing the support needed are they?

I agree it should be means tested. I have a disability which means i would likely be awarded PIP but dh is in top 0.1% of earners. Should I claim? He’s taxed to the hilt so why shouldn’t we get something back.. no I wouldn’t as my conscience wouldn’t allow me. Even when I see my BIL by his own admission enjoying a life of cruising curtesy of PIP.

Applying for pip is a nightmare. They want literal blood. I can’t see how anyone can fake it as you typically need professionals evidence.
I do feel that the very rich shouldn’t claim unless they really need too

Its astonishing isnt it
I actually found the PIP for though long and reptative very easy to fill out because my sons needs are so complex and ovious
So things like can he shower himself
No he can stand underneath a showr but has no concept of needing to wssh himself
Can he dress himsrlf
Of a fashion he can put clothes on but has no awareness of if they are back to front or inside out or clean.

I dealt with assisting claims every day and l saw first hand just how many genuinely disabled people have to go to appeal and fight to get the benefit they’re entitled to. The numbers are huge and appeals cost the tax payer a fortune. If we concentrated on a fairer system getting more of the decisions right first time we could save hundreds of millions.

I don’t understand the myth perpetrated on forums like these that all you have to do is to lie and you’ll get PIP. It’s utter nonsense and one look at the assessment criteria and the rules for assessors blows this myth out of the water. All of the information is right there online for all to see.

Unless you live with someone 24/7, are familiar with every aspect of their condition, know exactly what they have reported on their application form, what medical evidence they’ve submitted (along with the medical knowledge to actually interpret it) and been present at the assessment, you can’t possibly know whether someone is, or isn’t eligible. That’s between the claimant and te DWP.

The fraud rate for PIP is very low - much of that is because the benefit itself is difficult to claim, requires medical or support services evidence and in most cases either face to face/phone or video assessment to verify. Of course there are blaggers. Every system has them, but unfortunately for disabled people it’s they who suffer when their own level of genuine disability has been screened out because eligibility and other criteria are narrowed/tightened to account for those who will always want something they know was never meant for them.

Tell me what? That they went out by themselves including some long distant journeys on public transport? They didn't need to tell me that. I saw for myself!!

I know. It's just baffling to me that some people think 1. it is a good idea and 2. it would actually save money.

Yes, I’ve done a lot of voluntary work, and what you’re saying is right. But, it also has to be said, some people do manage to scam the system. 🤷‍♀️

But, the last time I had to renew my DLA, I sent a virtual parcel of medical stuff - I have physical problems. So, fully documented with scans, consultants reports etc etc .

At that point they realised my condition just could not cure itself, and put me on a lifetime award.

The government have said they intend to review and tighten the criteria for things like ADHD, plus mental health issues, so I don’t know what’ll happen with all that. 🤷‍♀️

A family member receives the higher level of both PiP elements. He cannot find ANY work due to his disabilities, and even if he did find a job, then the PIP would enable him to access travel and adjustments he would need.
I know various people who get PIP and all of them need it in order to make life easier.

If course, with any benefit there are going to be a few people who cheat the system. The vast majority don’t. Getting PIP approved is extremely difficult and there are disabled people who have given up on the application because it’s so stressful and challenging.

Thank you

It won’t save money. It costs a fortune. Plus, from the milk tokens experience, certain shop keepers just buy them at undervalue, and parents just use the cash as normal. 🙄

There is also a safety issue to the mobility component too, which applies to cognition/capacity. Reliably, repeatedly, to an acceptable standard and without hurting yourself or others is the standard for each activity, and is really important when assessing mobility.

Ha! That's the same with my son. The first time I applied for him, I think I sent everything but the kitchen sink as evidence and I actually won't have to renew with DLA at all because they rewarded him right up until just before he turns 16. It will be applying to PIP (you know, if it still exists in 5 years).

We pay for my DD1 to have her hair cut every 5 weeks and recently paid for her to have her hair dyed before travelling to Germany for a family wedding, helped by her PIP and my carer’s allowance. (My DH is still a tax payer.)

Shock horror, how entitled can we be!!

So why haven’t you reported them ?