PIP isn't fit for purpose

[Ljcrow]

I made this comment on another thread and thought I'd start a separate thread purely on this topic. This is all from my own personal experience rather than from reading/hearing anything, I'm only going off what I see day to day.
The people I know who claim PIP do not need it financially. One works full time and earns more than me (and I'm not at imminent risk of homelessness or starvation) and the young people I know literally tell me things like their PIP's come in so they're off to get a new tattoo, which they then do. They appear to have much more disposable income than me.
These are all people who can function in society by the way and as far as I can see, all PIP does is give them extra spending money, which I'm sure we'd all like.

I'm aware this won't be the case for everyone who recieves PIP but it is for the people I come into regular contact with. Which is why it needs reloooking at so it only goes to those who actually need the money for a specific purpose related to their disability.

We're not in a position as a society where we can afford to give people money who do not actually need it.
Things like this should be means tested, both in terms of whether people have enough income to live a decent life without additional benefits and in terms of what the money is actually going to be used for.
PIP is not fit for purpose and needs scrapping or totally changing.

Yeah. The ‘mass’ migration to PIP has never happened around here. I think it might if a person needs a review, but not with the old DLA life awards. Probably because the backlogs are bad enough now. 🤷‍♀️

But, yes, I’m not letting everything go because of my health problems.

Whatever I use my DLA for has sod all to do with others - overall, I cost very little for the state. 😉

I've never told anyone im on pip except my mh team and my consultants as I needed them to write evidence. The majority of people i know couldn't even tell you half my disabilities

They don't always provide those and when they do certain not high quality and comfortable ime. I need crutches and for long distances a mobility scooter but the NHS has never offered them.

I agree with this. I don’t see these people in my day to day. But I think I would be eligible for PIP. I am on the severe mental illness register from a previous episode.

I do spend additional money on managing my ‘disability’. Ie. Not having a psychotic relapse by working part time- going to fitness 1-1 once a week which is kind of akin to therapy for me, and spending on a gym membership which includes spa.

I consider all the above luxuries. But I can just about afford them and they keep me sane so I do it anyway.

It would be nice to have more money. But it would be ridiculous imo for the taxpayer to be paying for the above. So I don’t claim.

Actually that’s not strictly true. The DWP only lists the main disabling condition as determined on the application form. Roughly 40% of all of those who claim PIP do so for a mental health condition, learning or spectrum disability. According to recent IFS research, the majority of these claimants also have a secondary physical health diagnosis which contributes to the PIP award.

@ThisZanyCoralShark no, I wasn’t insinuating that at all. I’m merely saying my experience of hearing and seeing younger members of the workforce openly claiming PIP. Clearly, I’m no medical expert but the older versions of this youngsters have very similar issues that I very much suspect would get a diagnosis today.

Im sorry for the loss of your Mother.

I never mentioned rich spouses? Why should the tax payer pay for your adjustments when you can afford to pay for them yourself and earn more money than most of those paying their taxes for your PIP?

From what you've wrote it would be highly unlikely you would get pip

60% don't, so the majority don't.

I can no longer drive & can't go out by myself . I had a brain injury a few years ago and have been left with walking with a stick and have balance problems and lack of spacial awareness .
I can't work and can't do thinks like hang out washing and walk down stairs without being very unsteady on my feet and even stepping off a curb can unbalance me . I cant get up from the floor .
I was advised to apply for pip .

For those that don't know there can be 2 parts to pip - daily living & mobility and you can get standard rate or a higher rate .
I applied and got standard rate for daily living and nothing for mobility even though that has affected me the most .
I get less than £77 a week and no other benefit . I cant get means tested benefit because I have savings and have to use that up to the required amount for have to get below first .
I am not living it up .

And some of them might be quietly claiming PIP. For what seems the 100th time - PIP is not an out of work benefit. 🙄. You can work, and get it.

PIP is a nightmare to try and claim it isn't easy at all. My husbands goes on his car he wouldn't be able to leave the house without it, keeping the house warm to keep him well and a couple of hobbies, he hasn't been able to work for 5 years, some days he cant get out of bed, his disability means he cant take part in the hobbies he used to love. If he spends a bit of money each month on his hobbies which make his life feel worth living and gives him a bit of joy do you have a problem with that?

Im fed up of people who think they hand PIP out to everyone.

Because if you means test PIP, then your spouses income and savings will be taken into account.
I know disabled women who claim PIP and nothing else because of what their partner/spouse has. It puts them in a very vulnerable position financially... one which women on here get warned about.

This is what people don't understand the impact your physical health has on your mental health. I wrote every medical condition down when applying for pip but it doesn't mean thats what I actually scored points on or get pip for.

I know one young person who spends it on therapy / other essentials, mainly directed by her mother and another who spends it on clothes / takeaways. There’s nothing that says it has to be spent making your life easier due to your disability, though that is the purpose of it.

People are using their very unique personal circumstances or limited knowledge of "someone I know"'s circumstances to justify bashing the rest of the disabled community.

Yes, people will attempt, and on occasion, succeed in playing the system for their own benefit (the system being the welfare system as a whole, not just disability related support). But this isn't the same as not being "fit for purpose". What is the purpose? I understand it to be to stop people with a disability being at a disadvantage to those without said disability - which means supporting the additional costs associated with that disability. And I, for one, am happy that we live in a country which provides this support.

I've not seen such a gratuitous amount of ableism on a thread on MN.

The issue is that some people on PIP can afford things that the rest of us can't, and some people can't get care to meet their needs. And some people who are in work can't pay for food and need to use food banks.

That's the issue.

Kemi B is talking about some benefits being loaded onto cards that can only be used for certain purposes (essentials, medical care etc). I think this is reasonable. It's taxpayer's money and there should be a proper accounting.

Only a handful of people know I receive PIP. So many people don't know how much I suffer and they can't unless they see me every day. I might be able to one thing one day, but not the next and then that one thing might wipe me out for a day/week.

Someone mentioned walking with bad knees. If you're judging someone on their bad knees and being out and about, how do you know it's just a knee problem and not a part of a bigger autoimmune thing. Also, they might be drugged up to their eyeballs on medication and painkillers and not be able to work and drive.

Sorry, what now? If the NHS won't prescribe, then you obviously do not need it?

Bullshit.

I have just had WCS out to my home (because I currently can't get there)... my home that has been adapted to suit my power chair, supplied by the NHS...

And they have told me that because I crawl up/bump down my stairs once a day (and use a commode the rest of the day) I may well NOT qualify for a power chair when this one dies.

Just based on that. I can't crawl up/down anyone elses stairs, I can stand to transfer but can't stand more than 30 seconds, can't actually walk anywhere..

They might prescribe a manual wheelchair - but what they would supply for my needs, it would be too wide for my doorways (manual chairs are wider than powerchairs as you sit between the wheels not above them), it would be too heavy to self propel even if I could, which I now cannot (due to irreparable damage to my shoulders from previous manual chair use)..

And my house is adapted to be accessible to a power wheelchair - everything would be six inches too fucking high up for a manual chair even if you could get it from hall to living room to kitchen.

MY GP physio and my cardiology consultant do not want me using a manual chair, they also do not want me using a stair lift as on good days I can just about do that (with aids, with supervision) and a stair lift would mean you can't get up my stairs without using it so I would lose that bit of mobility I have left.

But WCS criteria would say no.

So I would lose my independence around the house, no more being able to pop to answer the door or go make a cuppa or a meal...

Yes, it is VERY hard to get the aids you need from the NHS when it comes to wheelchairs, and the criteria keep getting stricter.

Absolutely this. Just looking back through some of the comments it’s astounding how many people are so incapable of critical thinking that they only see wheelchairs, crutches and treatment/therapy as disability related costs. What if you’re incontinent ? Who pays for your padding ? Who covers the higher energy bills because you’re in the shower and your washing machine/tumble dryer are on multiple times a day ? If you live alone who helps with cleaning, help around the home, keeping the garden tidy - hell, even changing a lightbulb can be challenging, if not impossible.

The list is endless, and regardless of whether MN like it or not, that’s why we have a universal disability benefits system - because disability is universal. And it’s expensive. Not to mention that disability benefits can be instrumental in keeping disabled people in work.

Well fine. Let’s make child benefit, UC, even if a working top up, and disability benefits payable by card only.

It’ll cost many millions, and generate the fraud of the old milk tokens, but let’s go for it.

Or maybe not. 🙄

There’s days I can’t go to work because I’ve had to take additional morphine and it wouldn’t be safe for me to drive.

I have a reasonable adjustment that lets me wfh on those days and work asynchronously.

having pip made that process much easier but I still had to justify it to SLT

It’s already being reviewed ..what a pointless post.

In one breath everyone should work, then attack PIP which is a benefit that assists people TO work.

Then the declaration we can’t support the sick and disabled…which is rubbish when huge corporations pay zero tax. Isn’t it we can’t afford foreign wars? Vanity projects? Let’s stop all the charges the royal family makes to public services before we start on the sick and disabled?

You need robust evidence for this
I have recently completed my sons PIP form as hes 16 and transtioning from DLA he cant plan a journey and travel indrpendently from A to B becsuse hes severley autistic ,non verbal ,can only communicate on a very basic level etc , i have tons of evidence backing this up including Hiis EhCP ,risk assessements ftom his special ,school and his respute service
Its not as simple as saying icant plan a journey please give me PIP.

Thank you.