to not want ds, 9, to attend the sex education lessons at school?

[fircone]

It's just that he is only a little boy. He is the youngest in the year and is completely un-streetwise. His friends' mothers are unhappy about these lessons too.

I'm not Victoria Gillick (remember her, anyone?) and I would be happy for information to be provided at the end of Year 6 before they move up to secondary school, but I strongly feel that at nine years old this is going to be all too much.

I know that there is the brigade who insist that children must be aware of everything from the earliest age, but I am happy for children to stay children for as long as possible.

Agree with all , better to inform as soon as they are capable of understanding.
My mother still hasn`t discussed anything with me and I am 40 tomorrow, married with a child !!
I do remember at 10 years old in school a friend with older sisters told me that "you get blood which will come out of your front bottom and there is no way of stopping it - it will happen to us all soon " .
Funny now but I was terrified for months and was too afraid to ask my mother , I thought she meant it would happen all day and every day !!
Beyond that basic biology , I still blush at the night my DH had to have a "chat" with me a few months after we met as it became obvious to him that the mature woman that I thought and he thought I was , was in fact completely clueless about basic sex ... can giggle now ...but at the time I was very selfconscious .
No way will this happen to my daughter .....

DS age 8 is having Sex and Relationship ed this week. Having primed him to mention breastfeeding at any opportunity I asked him what they learned on the first day. He said "we talked about feelings".

My parents kept me ignorant about sex till I was 11. They fobbed me off when I asked leading questions and kept it a deep dark secret till my mother spilled the beans on the eve of my going to guide camp.

I then felt my parents had been lying to me about it for years and was quite cross.

I think children can know the facts about the reproduction of humans and other mammals, without sacrificing the innocence of childhood.

We had a discussion on breastfeeding, started by the children, during our sex education recently (Y6). It was all very positive. Learning the basic facts of life can surely only be a good thing. In our school, we timetabled it under Science and PSHE.

Elasticwoman - my mum was the same - suddenly just before going away on camp at 10 my mum came out with some fumbled explanation about blood in my knickers and gave me some pads - I hadn't a clue what she was on about - I never trusted her with anything personal again.
I am absolutely determined not to be the same with my dd's. I think my concerns about sex ed are more getting the feelings side right e.g empowering them with the whole 'its ok to say no' message without coming across as 'don't ever have sex!'

I got the talk from my mum just before I went off to boarding school age 12. It was practically useless.
Nearly PMSL recently when she said smugly how glad she was that she had told me everything I needed to know at the right age.

DD is 8 and in year 4. She told me last week that when they do sex ed in year five they have to watch a video of someone having sex!

I said - 'I think not luvvy - because that would be porn and I doubt your school will be showing you any of that!'.

She then asked me what porn was and we had a long chat about exploitation.

But she knows about periods (two girls in her class have started theirs), conception (the bare outlines), how babies are born. She knows what homosexuals are and why they are, she knows what condoms are for.

D'you think I'm irresponsible?

They need the information, otherwise all sorts of misunderstandings can arise. DS knew that a sperm and an egg were required to make a baby. Out of nowhere he asked me when he would start making sperm.He was very anxious. Turned out he thought sperm would just burst forth from his penis and impreganate any passing females.

So yes, he learned the mechanics of it all at 5...

Am a biology teacher BTW

LOL at Sabire having to explain porn! Possibly a bit previous - if they haven't even got t sex yt, never mind the porn industry!!

And would it be porn, automatically, to show a film of people having sex? agree that it is highly unlikely that that will happen, but I don't thnk I would tell a child that a fil of peolple simply having sex was porn - I think I would have said it is privat, so not filmed or shown (in primary schools!).

But I really don't think that a film of someone having sex is necessrily porn.

I asked my Mum about tampons and periods and where babies come from etc at quite a young age, she said I'll tell you when you are older (she never did). We had period talks at school, but didn't have any sex ed until year 9, and that was just 1 lesson in biology and was very technical, ooh apart from a super lovely propaganda exercise from the pro-lifers with technicolour aborted babies and extra lashings of emotional manipulation (the joys of a catholic education). I was outraged by that, wish I had been more confident and demanded a talk from pro-choicers, but I was a wimp.

I got all of my info from friends or Tv or magazines, I didn't even tell my Mum when I started my periods, just pilfered pads from my sisters, she never even took me to get a bra!!

As a result I am determined not to be like this with my Dc, I still have vague feelings of shame and embarrasment after sex, and I generally hide everything unless forced into a corner.

I get to see the rather exciting () sex ed DVD next week, prior to DS1's class seeing it. I'll be shocked if it mentions anything (apart from maybe masturbation, which I think I'll let him work out for himself)that we haven't already discussed at some point (at his instigation) Tbh I'm more worried about the fact that it's apparently been approved by the Religious Education people, as I'm not quite sure what they've got to do with it?!

And I know this is a bit irrelevent as the OP isn't go to pull their child out now (if I read that correctly?) but our letter does say that parents can refuse permission for their child to see the film.

I love this book and will read it to ds when he is readyWhere Willy Went

Anna, Greensleeves Edam etc - i am not cross that dd1's friend knew what "sex " was! What I am cross about is that she knew and therefoer shared wiht my dd far too much - she gave dd a blow by blow account of what happens which i think is in appropriate for a child - and they are children - this girl has just turned 11 ( my dd is almost 12). for e.g. this girl knew that ( as well as the man being on top of hte woman ) that he must go up and down and that the woman needs to beome wet ( sorry if TMI) and that it hurts a lot first time and the woman bleeds - she also knew what oral sex etc.is.

I stick to my opinion this level of detail is in appropriate for a child. Of course a child must know what happens to their body and why and around the age of 11 must know the basics of sex and how babies are made so as to protect herself but why on earth do they need to know intimate detail? Unless these people are planning on their kids becoming sexually active at such a young age it is all totally inappropriate and IMO will only fuel curiosity to try things younger.

I also don't agree that sex education ( i.e. how babies are made and the mechanics of what happens between a man and woman) is appropriate at all for a 9 yr old. Again, yes, info about their bodies and how they will change is esential but not about sex. They are not or should not be planning to have sexual relationships for many years so why the need to know half way through primary school?

They're probably not going to become brain or heart surgeons mid way through primary school either - but they still need to be taught. Presumably few primary children would be planning to become Maths professors either - so why not ban Maths too, and any form of Science, History, Geography etc etc etc cos obviously they're not going to need this information either

lisalisa - but how do you propose to "shield" children from this information in this day and age and society? I think it is very unrealistic to think that you can - better by far to be aware of what children will inevitably hear about from the environment they live in, and to prepare them for it in anticipation.

Incidentally Sabire - at 23.34: 'She knows what homosexuals are and why they are'

I know what homosexuals are but I certainly don't know WHY they are - can you explain?

Titchy is right. Why does my 8yo ds need to know the location of the Amazon river basin? He won't be able to go there until he is grown up!

There is very little information that they actually need in order to survive at the age of 9; school is to a great extent preparation for later life.

To me, there is nothing in basic sex education that would necessarily rob a child of innocence, any more than their innocence will be spoiled if they are taught about hibernation, geological formation or magnets- all of which are covered in Science by Year 3. It's us adults who feel all un-innocent because we have our own associations around sex: that's nothing to do with the kids.

I can understand that Lisa feels her dd's friend was a little too explicit in her explanations. But that is precisely why you would want the first sex lesson to come from responsible adults, either the school or from yourself, and not from your children's little friends. Which seems a good argument for early sex education.

I don't think that equating maths skills is cognisant with equating early knowledge of sexual techniques ( I did say remember that this girl knew about oral sex) and behaviours. Remember - and this is crucial - that at age 9 your child is learning basic division and long multiplication. He or she is not learning complex fractions. Why? Because this basic level is all that is necessary and appropriate for that age group and all that they could sufficiently understand. Compare this with sex education. At 9 years old all that is necessary and appropriate ( and all that they can sufficently be expected to understand at their level of maturity ) is what happens to their bodies at around or a little later than that age not the intimacies of an ( or what should be an adult ) sexual relationship.

It is like teaching complex fractions to a 9 yr old. It will either go over their head or not be understood or ( unlike maths) be treated with a juvenile disdain/embarrassment which may even spoil what could have been a more mature dealing wiht the subject at a later, more appropriate time.

Ditto your examples about becoming a brain /heart surgeon. The basics of science are taught in Primary Schools - the parts that the children are reasonably deemed able to understand and benefit from. Those parts too complex or that the childrne cannot benefit at that age from knowing about ( e.g. why things go wrong wiht the heart) are left until much much later.

The exact same is true of "sex education". Those parts the children can understand and benefit from should be taught and the rest left until much later. Those parts that 9 year old children can understand and benefit from ( and need to know) are about their own bodies and the changes they can expect to start happening - they hvae no need to understand or be privy to what goes on in an adult sexual relationship and neither do they have the maturity to cope wiht that informaiton of know what to do with it.

wow, i think 9 is actually late to be learning about sex and relationships. my ds will be taught from an age he can understand the very basic stuff, hopefully 4 or 5. I agree with the Dutch education system.

my dh knew what to do with his male anatomy from the age of 10 and would find po*n mags along the railway on his way to school or on his way back from school and would entertain himself that way (yep at 10yo!).

lisalisa - don't know where you went to school, but I was definitely doing complex fractions by 9.

My daughter goes to a bilingual school (French and English) and will also learn Spanish in the last three years of primary school. Is this too early in your book?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that 9 year olds should be taught specific techniques or positions like oral sex or doggy, but at this age they should know the basic facts, not just about their bodies and what is about to happen to them (hair, periods etc) AND WHY, but about loving and respectful relationships (and AFAIK the NC teaches relationship stuff from KS1 - about friendships, taking turns, what to do about bullying etc.). They should also be taught the basics about mammalian reproduction i.e. that babies grow from the mummy's egg and the daddy's seed inside the mummy's tummy and the route that the seed takes to get there, adn the route the baby (usually!) takes to get out! from there in a year or so they can build on that knowledge and learn about ovulation, sperm production, contraception, the female hormone cycle, IVF maybe and other more complex biological facts.

The same as any subject - start with the basics and develop their knowledge when they fully understand the basics, be it reproduction, magnetism, the weather or anything else.

Do schools have an obligation to let you know they're about to embark on this? My dd is the youngest in Y5 too, and it would be nice to know, if only to prepare myself for the follow-up questions.

"I guess I was less thrilled about the discussion of masturbation. "
Fircone - I'm pleased you have decidd to let your DS be in the lesson, as in the gran scheme of things, one would hope that the aspect of sex he is likely to encounter first - before intercourse, babies, etc, is masturbation...and he may be a little boy t you but his interest in masturbation will be very very imminent if what mot adult males have told me about thier burgening sexuality is accurate.

One exP told me that at 9 his Mum used make him sit on the sidelines while she did her yoga class - the effect of 15 lycra clad fit women in various contortions was not to bring on a bored day dream about train sets....

LOl what his Mum did that to actively encourage an errection? Poor little sod.. That sounds very early 70's!

My 3 year old asks me about how she came to be and I tell her exactly how it is. It shouldn't be something to be ashamed of but at the same time it's really you who knows your child and it is ultimately your decision. If I was concerned about what was covered and the delivery of it, I'd get to my child before they do and give a better explanation in a way that I deemed more appropriate. I would prepare the child for what they are to hear. I would also ask the school exactly what they intended to discuss and how they planned to do it. I wouldn't exlclude your child from the class they would be left out and more curious and would get the information from their classmates anyway. I would certainly discuss your concerns with the school.