To think that some parents are shit at parenting and that's why their children are little shits

[Itwasthe90s]

There, I said it. 😂
I'm sick of parents excusing appalling behaviour with everything but they actual problem - they're doing a shit job and need to do something differently, read a parenting book or go to parenting classes.
Hitting other children, being rude to adults and throwing a tantrum every time they hear NO shouldn't be brushed off like it so often is these days.
And don't get me started on parents who blame the teacher, the other child, or literally anyone except their own precious offspring.
Yes, children have additional needs. Yes, they have difficult days. But sometimes a badly behaved child is simply a badly behaved child whose parents refuse to set boundaries.
When did gentle parenting become synonymous with refusing to tell your child they're behaving like a little shit?
Go on, tell me I'm wrong.

You are not being unreasonable. No boundaries, no discipline, bone idle parenting is rife. Put your tin hat on for the litany of excuses though.

Amen

Exactly how I am with my two with SEN.

Some parents think SEN means they can't possibly be a shit parent. Or, more accurately no one can say they are, or they'll pull the "ohhhh, so you have a problem with disabled children" card.

Most parents are decent parents. Some parents are shite lazy parents. SEN or otherwise.

Fortunately my ‘difficult’ child is 2 so no falling in with a bad crowd (yet! 😅) but yes, I agree that the fact there are more difficult kids doesn’t excuse bad parenting.

I do think this is a problem and I also notice that even despite our best efforts sometimes DH and I do not parent consistently because we are very different people.

My parents (with Mum at home)?were 100% consistent and the boundaries were very clear.

I also think it likely worked better when mums (or one parent) were at home because the bond gave the parent a natural authority. If my mum or dad was displeased with me I really cared and wanted to make it good, so I behaved.
My kids were in nursery so they didn’t really care enough about us to care if we were displeased or not.

I’d be really interested to know if others had this experience or if there’s been research into it.

Does “everyone” include his parents?.

I have two very different children behaviour wise. One chooses to push their boundaries more than the other. That’s normal.

This thread isn’t about that one child who’s a little mischievous and a bit annoying.

This is about children who cause a massive amount of chaos, disruption and have zero idea how to self regulate. Their personality has been shaped by their environment. Hence the need for social support in school these days.

Sorry I wasn’t more clear. I should have just said no. You’ve not got a clue about the state of some families.

Well, let me give you the other scenario which could easily have been my cousin when he was a child. Messy divorce, both parents had a lot of money. Neither of them ever wanted to be bad cop and say no so he wouldn't take "no" from anyone else. He was bought everything he ever wanted so appreciates nothing, got his first and only job in his dad's firm and has never managed a long-term relationship as he is insufferably selfish.

Totally agree with this. Obviously there are pluses to two involved parents (time, inspiration, engagement) but it can chip away at discipline. I’m late 40s and my generation was definitely brought up by mums as the primary parent with dads in the background.

YABU to call children “little shits”.

It would be great to have a discussion about why behaviour is currently so bad in schools right from Reception year onwards without parents of children with additional needs taking it personally.

This.

Plus the weird assumption that all children with SEN always look perfectly NT. The way my NT child has a strop about something is very different to how either of my SEN children present. The idea that no one but me would be able to tell the difference is juvenile.

And again, the vast majority of children do not have SEN.

Don't see the relevance to my comment.
Everyone knows bad parents exist but parents of children with disabilities get judged constantly. The scenario the op gave is one example where they have judged it as being poorly bad parenting and not considered disabilities being involved.

Yes

And also it creates more division between NT and ND children. As if the factors behind the overall worsening in behaviour can only apply to 1 of my children.

This!

I don't agree. Yes children are all different and some are FAR harder work than others, but those are the children that need really really firm boundaries. Put harsh boundaries in place and it works.

The rise in SEND diagnoses shouldn't explain the worsening behaviour because apparently those children have always existed,the rate of diagnosis is just more realistic now.

No boundaries and inherent selfishness. Community is dead.

I fully sympathise with you and wanted to say you're not alone. I click on these threads half because I'm a glutton for punishment and half because I'm looking for the answer to what is going wrong with my parenting. I am strict, hands-on, involved, I explain everything so that my children understand the why behind the instruction. I read the books, I take on the advice, I hold the boundaries, and still my children (5 and 3 year-old boys) feel like the worst behaved in any group.
I'm a leader in a junior faction of Scouts and had to spend an embarrassing amount of time in the last session just trying to control my own child's behaviour - shouting, showing off, running around, setting off other children.
I pulled him aside twice and had serious words with him about his behaviour, he settled down, then kicked off again. In normal circumstances I'd have dragged him out after he started up again after the first warning and he'd have missed the session as a consequence of his own behaviour, but I couldn't leave because I was also responsible for the other 15 children there that evening.
I was so angry and so embarrassed - I ended up shouting at him across the room which made me feel like an absolute scumbag (and still didn't make a blind bit of difference), just so the other parents and leaders could see that I wasn't actually being permissive about his behaviour. It's like this with both of them - they seem to be fine with just us but as soon as they come into contact with another child they just regress into frankly horrible children that I'd judge if they weren't my own. Actually, I still judge and they are mine.

So I'm probably one of the shit parents from the OP, but christ, I swear I'm trying.

This is me with my DD. Its nice to know we're not alone

I pulled him aside twice and had serious words with him about his behaviour, he settled down, then kicked off again

No. People won't be thinking what a shite parent.

I can tell littlest DS not to do something and he'll be compliant 4 out of 5 times. The 5th he'll just think "fuck it" for reasons known only to himself. Including just feeling devilish, because he can, as all children do at some point or another.

The fact I've made a proper attempt to address the behaviour is what matters. Just like you did. We all have days where they're determined not to listen. Other parents can see that.

I don't even need to read beyond that ridiculous title to know what kind of person I'm dealing with. Imagine being a grown adult calling other people's children “little shits” while congratulating yourself on your superior parenting skills while I'm sure your own children are absolute delights with such a charming example to follow. The irony of complaining about children being rude and disrespectful while publicly insulting kids you've never met is apparently completely lost on you so perhaps before suggesting everyone else pick up a parenting book, you could start with one about teaching children basic kindness and respect because you don't seem to have mastered either yourself.

"My kids were in nursery so they didn’t really care enough about us to care if we were displeased or not."

This sentence really concerns me. That is not a 'child in nursery' issue.

You don't look like one of those parents because people are not silly. They can see you trying. They can see you pulling your child aside and trying to correct the behaviour.

But there's a LOT of parents who don't try at all. They shrug and give it the old "kids will be kids"
They make excuses or blame the school, the other kids, the other parent or it all being too hard so they gave up.
They get confrontational or aggressive when people ask if their child could stop using another as a punching bag
Or they do the classic - performative parenting - they sit and scroll or chat to friends completely ignoring their kids and then when someone points out a problem they performatively shout and swear and pull their kid about by the arm so everyone can see how good they are at discipline then sit back down and go right back to ignoring the kid.

Those are the shit parents, and people do know the difference.

Where's she congratulating herself on superior parenting skills?

Observing that plenty of children are indeed little shits doesn't mean she thinks she is superior.

It does mean she's got eyes and can see plenty of shit parents, resulting in little shits for children.

Or maybe I'm just sick of seeing my own kids and my friend's suffer at the hands of children who have never been taught right from wrong.
Maybe I'm sick of children who were taught they are the centre of the universe disrupting my children's education, and making decent teachers quit the profession in droves.
Maybe I'm sick of people banging on about how mean it is to call a spade a spade, when they could put that energy into fixing the problem.

YANBU, OP. See also, water is wet 😏