To find all these "why aren't people having children any more" arrives absurd

[CurdinHenry]

It's not really a mystery is it

The real intrigue is why people still do

It's not a logical choice, it's something else that's very hard to describe

Feminism doesn't suggest that women are made weaker by having children. Feminism highlights The Motherhood Penalty which points out that women who have children often face systemic disadvantages, such as falling behind childfree counterparts in salary, hiring, and promotions due to rigid workplace structures. Feminism seeks to dismantle these barriers rather than blame the women navigating and feminists have been actively campaigning against this for a century now.

It's society that makes mothers weaker sociologically and economically - not feminism.

Conversely a lot of people have children because of societal pressure. 33% of millennials say they feel that pressure. (ONS).

That is assuming all women get fulfilment spending years in an office - I certainly didn't despite earning a very good salary, and studies show that most mothers would like to take time out but can't afford to.

In a recent (2023) study, 32% of mothers said they would have preferred to stop work entirely. That’s not most.

And really the best thing to do if you’re in that 32% (which I’m definitely not) is to not have children until you’re in the position to leave work entirely, either because you have the money personally or it’s available within your marriage.

Hmm I get you but I have definitely observed a massive dip in the volume of babies and children I see around. Obviously older ones are indoors playing video games.. but you don't see pregnant women anywhere near as often as 10, 20, 30+ years ago.

Great point about seeing fewer pregnant women around than in the past. Most days I see zero visibly pregnant women and that’s with coming across a lot of people day to day between going to the gym, commuting to and from work, walking around a very large office, sometimes socialising after work.

When I was a child in the 1990s, there were always 2-3 pregnant teachers / women working at my school at any one time (normal size school - perhaps 40 or 50 staff).

Perhaps you were in the wrong job.
Not all people work in offices.
Many people enjoy their jobs for reasons other than purely the salary.

It's really clear from your posts that you think happiness is a binary choice between material things and motherhood. That is a you thing.

Thank you for that - I could not have expressed it so well, but I do think it.

Is stopping work entirely the same as stepping out for a while?

What I find bemusing is people start using their own biases as to what the reason maybe instead of just asking those who don’t have them / have fewer than they wanted why that is. It’s a fairly easy thing to survey.

And some wanted to but were not in a position to do so. As you said it’s all fairly obvious!

Yep this. The assumption that women decide completely alone as to whether they will have children and how many.

I have read that a large proportion of women who exit their fertile years without children wanted them.

I do think people ignore the impact of effective forms of contraception. In the past you had to marry, you had sex, and children, in most cases followed.

Not just in the West, it’s a global trend with some Asian countries (such as Japan and South Korea) having the largest declines. Only the continent of Africa is bucking the trend and even there it varies from country to country.

This is such a lazy point of view. It’s not simply about “acquiring material things”. I have zero interest in in “acquiring material things”. I don’t have children simply because I was never in a position to have them.

If youd asked me when they were little I would have said dont do it. But now that theyve left home 😂I cant imagine life without them. But seriously they are my favourite people and I regularly wish I could go back in time and have one more baby cuddle. Whereas I look at my child free friends and their lives appear to be either a joyless self obsession, ongoing existential crisis, sadness that it didnt work out, or a mix. Anecdotal stories though and its different for everyone.

But if logical terms is how you want to look at it, what else are you here to do? Its literally your biological imperative like every other form of life. What might offer you a better experience or more enjoyment, well as already discussed, that's an unknown.

Whereas I look at my child free friends and their lives appear to be either a joyless self obsession, ongoing existential crisis, sadness that it didnt work out, or a mix. Anecdotal stories though and its different for everyone.

I'm glad you added that last bit. Children are not a garantee of a good life. There is a thread right now in AIBU of a poor woman that's been betrayed by her husband and he's turned the children against her.