To find all these "why aren't people having children any more" arrives absurd

[CurdinHenry]

It's not really a mystery is it

The real intrigue is why people still do

It's not a logical choice, it's something else that's very hard to describe

I have no idea what was going through the school's head when they made us watch that. I had to leave the classroom and genuinely thought I was going to pass out.

Especially when it’s usually the mum that has to do all of this and have a job, while the dad’s life doesn’t change all that much. (Not all men of course…)

Thereare genuine economic concerns - people are living longer, requiring more state support etc, not passing down accumulated wealth etc, but there are goign to be fewer people to be economically active to support all these people.

But I think the reason there are so many articles is because basically, they get to blame WOMEN. Even the articles that are on the surface "sympathetic" and understanding, still love to highlight how it's WOMEN's fault. And it's not conscious a lot of the time, but nonetheless, I don't htink it's a coincidence.

In the (way) past and recent past, there were ways out for women who really did not want children. Monastic life for example. It springs to mind because I read recently about a woman in NY who, after having children, went off to join the nuns. I kind of got the appeal!! 😁
But, many had very satisfying careers that way - in education, medicine, running business, creating art and so on. Indeed, some became CEOs/COOs of a sort - taking leadership roles in global networks of their Orders.
It was also a way to travel. Or, women could simply retreat.

I think today's "issue" is not more women choosing to be child free, it that the women who do have children chose one or two rather than 4 or 5 (or whatever the number was).

The people who cant actually afford or be bothered to be good parents seem to be the ones who procreate these days. Plus who wats to bring kids into the world now. Its shocking.

Im child free by choice and i went on a certain chat show in the late 90s that was presented by VF Was awful They brought on a couple who had lost a child. At the end the audience all groaned when they found out my then soon to be DH had two kids already. They knew he was older than me Did they think he had been living in a shed before meeting me.

I live in a one bedroom social housing flat. Even the possibility of getting a house with a garden (which would have happened had i reproduced between the 90s and 2013) which were my prime child bearing years didnt make a difference as i just didnt want to do it. We were being told we could have everything but what they really meant was they wanted us to DO everything. Work AND come home to run around after a kid. No thanks Not running myself ragged. Im now 53 and past the child bearing years and dont regret my decision at all.

It really has very little if anything to do with maternal care or the respect and dignity of pregnant women. I also think ‘cost of living’ is somewhat of a red herring. As has been mentioned several times on the thread, the more educated, affluent and free someone is, the fewer children they have. I’ve given the example of celebrities upthread - millions of dollars in the bank yet still having 1 child or 0 children in a far greater proportion than the general population.

Falling birth rates are about choice and wanting to preserve lifestyle above anything else. One child curtails freedom and opportunities enough, 4 or 5 children would decimate them. We all saw our mothers and grandmothers growing up, so we know this now. That’s why the trend is notoriously difficult to reverse.

I have two. I’d have liked to have more.
IMO it was the trend of being able to have it all. One child enables more freedom to work etc.
Now we are importing children, someone needs to pay tax in the future.

The majority of parents want more than one child. Ask mothers why they have one and the overwhelming response is due to care before and during pregnancy.

30k a year women have ptsd due to childbirth

Maternal suicide is one of the leading causes of death in women

47% of new mothers suffer from depression or anxiety

A BMJ Open study of almost 46,000 first-time mothers found that a negative first birth cut the likelihood of a second child within the study period by about 19%. It also stretched the median gap to the next baby from 3.9 years to 5.3 years.

I get highly frustrated when this is not talked about because women are being failed by poor maternity care.

This is a problem and one of the reasons for a declining birth rate.

I don’t disagree that pregnancy and labour are difficult - they are a huge strain on the body and mine. Of course. What I’m saying is that this is unlikely to be the primary reason. The very wealthy who have access to the best healthcare are having fewer/no kids at a greater proportion than ‘regular’ people who are restricted to NHS care and the like. That is no reason not to invest in better maternal care, and I agree the statistics are a disgrace, but it is highly unlikely to have a significant impact on falling birth rates.

The economy had changed. We don't need screeds of semi-literate unskilled labour.

Well that is not my experience at all. And im not selfless in any one. I genuinely love being a mum and don't feel I have given up myself for my childrenn. They enhance my life immensely. Of course there have been hard days and mundane times but to say it is all drudgery is just not true for many many of us. And as for comment about intelligent women. That has nothing to with it. im educated to post grad level. If I could only have my career or my children my children would win hands down every time.

But we do need people who work pay taxes to work in and fund services. Almost all societies are going to be an inverted pyramid for a very long time. The global population rise is being caused entirely by people living longer. The global birthrate has been stable since the 1970's and is now dropping off a cliff which means that once current 50 year olds die the global population will plummet. What is annoying is that it is not only predictable but inevitable. Even if everyone started having tons of babies they will not be adults for 20 years. The 50 year olds will have ( hopefully!) long retired. Yet instead of trying to work on solutions we harangue women into having more babies and causing another boomer generation. We need to sort out elderly care in this country and globally, that isn't going to mean a massive shit show for the people that do exist. I don't know what that is but there surely must be some people working on it.

I agree. Also statistically in the UK at least it is now also poorer women who are having fewer children.

Its really not an intrigue as to why people still have children! Pretty fucking fed up of this narrative that having kids is awful. Most people rather like it overall.

There is no mystery as to why people do or don't have kids. Its really easy to work out why people make different choices on this.

While I entirely agree that there is a lot of drudgery in raising kids, in that there is a high rotation of same tasks that young children need constant instruction in. Add to that the fact that they are not yet rational and well... Having said that, caring for my mum made me realize that many of the same elements are present in care of the elderly. Meaning that it is caring itself that is a hard task.

In the child realm, schools are an utter nightmare. There send so many communications, which creates busy work, requests for this or that, extras and so on.

In a way, the institutions outside the family add massively to the pressure.

Also, forced spending. Again, I find that hits on both ends of caring - young and old.

I am not childfree but have many in my circle that are. I notice their money is their own but much more than that - their time is their own. Philosophically there is a very different thoughts about life, in particular the future.

Who’s haranguing women to have more babies, outside the incel manosphere or whatever? And even if they were, it’s not working, is it? The birth rate has been in decline for decades. This is a classic case of a very positive social development (the widespread acceptance of choosing a child-free life, or having fewer children) being twisted into something negative so that we have something to whinge about.

Anything worth doing involves hard work. Children are not a hobby or leisure pursuit. They are a life you want. That you want because you have a meaning and purpose in your life, a deep relational connection and a deep unconditional love that you will not get from any other human relationship.

I never wanted children, and was happy not wanting children until I have a massive hormonal surge in my late 30s. I am so glad I did. And I do not have easy children in easy circumstances either. But there's a love and joy and deepness to it. I also still get to have time to myself especially as the children get older and can now be left by themselves for half a day.

If you don't want kids that's fine but please don't try to label it as drudgery that its better to pass so you can afford to go to a nail spa.

Child rearing is utterly mind numbing for intelligent women

I think the thread topic is an interesting subject to discuss. But insulting the majority of women by remarks like that makes me think that you are not an honest broker?

Making a claim that any woman who does not find child rearing mind numbing, must be unintelligent is condesending, aggressive and contentious.

I’m intelligent and I don’t find raising my children mind numbing. Little thrills me more than raising three girls to become strong, smart, interesting women.

No woman should feel she has to have children. And no woman who has children should feel like she has to adore it or find it fulfils her. But to generalise that intelligent women must find it mind numbing is arrogant and devalues the role of raising children.

I completely agree with you here @DiNozzoComingBack and have thought that for a while.

I actually think there is some subtle, sinister politics behind this focus. It always dwells on women, how we have choice now etc. It always seems to thinly disguise a "too much choice perhaps...?"

We never see analysis of men, their share of the "blame" in the drop off, how they behave when it goes wrong etc.

But (judging by your many and varied threads) you apparently hate absolutely everything, so I guess it's not a surprise that parenting is also on that list

I'm 40, out of my 15 or so best female friends that I have accumulated throughout my life, school, living in other countries etc, one of them has kids, the rest don't completely out of choice. I also don't because it never appealed so I assume it would make sense that I would socialise with like minded people but these are women from all parts of my life, people I met when I was very young, people I met in university and people I met when I moved abroad and lived in a few very different countries. Many people do not in fact want kids and I'm delighted that it is now fully socially acceptable for women to make that choice.

I seem to have been a bit ahead of my cohort, or miles behind. So my input is that I was born in 1956, university in 1972-74, and then I built a solid professional career for twenty years. DH and I met when we were both 36, and didn't plan kids, but one morning in November 1998 I woke up thinking it would be fun. And now our only DC is 27. He still seems to like us, and we're very proud of him. We have been very fortunate.