To find all these "why aren't people having children any more" arrives absurd

[CurdinHenry]

It's not really a mystery is it

The real intrigue is why people still do

It's not a logical choice, it's something else that's very hard to describe

People also expect more from life now.

Yes, you can't cite housing prices, cost of living, etc without factoring this in. During the Victorian & Edwardian eras, when normal families had six surviving children and over a dozen was not uncommon, those families lived in two- and three-bedroom houses or flats. They didn't have holidays, they had day trips.

They had little choice about the number of kids they'd have. In our society now, the overwhelming majority of women can control their fertility so they make different choices.

Yes absolutely

I can totally understand it.

I agree that people want more from life and generally to be happy. That often includes having money for hobbies, sports, holidays, clothes, self care, mini breaks, days out, food, drinks, coffees.
ALL of which unless you’re very very wealthy take a huge hit when you have children. Life is tough especially if you’re working full time then adding dc in just makes everything so much harder. Plus it’s so much drudgery. Now some people don’t mind all that (as we’ve seen above from some posters) and I know one of my relatives would also say she loves the vast majority of it but for me and most people I know it’s been a slog with nice moments sprinkled in along the way. I don’t blame women one iota if anything I think more power to you.

Theres a lot more transparency I think as well on what it’s like being a parent on social media and women are thinking like hell do I want any part of that.

I have dc but amongst my friend group lots of our dc currently say they do not want dc of their own. Obviously we expect this to change down the line (they’re all under 20) but some I think will stick to it whereas when I was younger it always felt like the option to just not have any wasn’t there it was just a question of when.

I have dc but amongst my friend group lots of our dc currently say they do not want dc of their own. Obviously we expect this to change down the line (they’re all under 20) but some I think will stick to it whereas when I was younger it always felt like the option to just not have any wasn’t there it was just a question of when.

I started ttc in the early 90s. At that time people who didn’t want children were still considered weird at best, selfish and materialistic hard faced career women/neurotic white sofa owners at worst. I remember a book came out in 1994 called Childfree and Loving It by Nicki DeFago and it caused quite the stir - the author was interviewed on Women’s Hour and other programmes, But you were also considered selfish if you were infertile and needed IVF on the NHS! I think it was around the mid 2000s that being childfree started to be seen asa valid choice.

Anyone choosing to have children now and subject them to the terrifying looking future (environmentally, socially, financially, politically etc etc) is utterly bonkers, possibly even cruel, in my opinion. The planet is truly fucked.

I keep getting fed old Supernanny content on Facebook and all of the struggling families bar none have 3 or more children. More than 2 children is pure folly given that most children have 2 parents, so tricky situations can be managed. As soon as the balance tips, it’s bound to be more chaotic.

My own view - I would rather have a coffee and read a book than spend time with a random child

It bamboozles me that it's bamboozling to not desire that life in the abstract

Yes and it’s taken even longer for it to be a valid choice. Not sure society is entirely there yet either.

But it is better than it was.

I know my DD would have loved another child but she has a full on career, 2 step children who come every weekend and I simply no longer have it in me to provide the same full time childcare I did for my Grandson from 0-2 plus nursery pick ups from 2-4 followed by the school run - ongoing until at least Senior school.

If you’re on benefits or extremely wealthy then extra kids are easy. Those in the middle carry the tax burden and can’t afford it.

This is why these articles exist because it pits people against each other and everyone falls for it. Rather than tackling the actual issues people attack another group based on their choices. And everyone just gets riled up which is great for the media.

in a life that has been full of fantastic opportunities and experiences, being a mum is by far and away the single most rewarding thing that I've ever done. Why wouldn't most people want that?

well in my case because I was raised by a mother who didn't seem to find motherhood particularly fulfilling and rewarding. Also because I went to single sex schools, was educated overwhelmingly by women who were dedicated to their careers and educating us to the best of their abilities, and absorbed the message that motherhood isn't the only route to feeling fulfilled and rewarded.

👏I could have written that word for word about my own life. It's great when women feel genuinely fulfilled by motherhood, but I do get irked when people try to peddle it the One True Way.

Add to that a genuinely traumatising sex ed film about childbirth when I was 15 that acted as instant aversion therapy - and I do mean instant.

It is all drudgery. It's giving up yourself and your pleasures for someone else. Dealing with boredom and disgust on a daily basis
Now some people are predisposed to get pleasure from that selflessness itself. Not everyone, though.

And once you know your own children and have a connection with them it's easier to bear. But now women know what it's going to be like before those children exist so they simply choose not to bother. That's the difference. Before, there was much less awareness of what it would be like.

Do you have children of your own, then? I'm sorry if you are finding it hard.

Yes. Not sure what you mean. Population decline can pose problems so is a concern for us all.

1 child is also a world away from 2+ children. It just is. I can’t really take parenting advice from people with onlys as it’s just so different. I had an only for quite a while so I do understand, and it’s not a value judgement, but having multiple kids is just far harder.

It IS hard. Child rearing is utterly mind numbing for intelligent women. The company of even the smartest kid is dreadful after five minutes. I know not everyone likes their work but I've never had a job I liked less than wiping someone else's arsehole.

Well, one job in a Christmas tree sales yard was pretty bad. Had to dress up as the world's least chirpy elf.

No it isn’t I agree. Idk why we’d all view motherhood the same way.

I feel relieved to have dc as I wanted them but I completely get some women will feel differently.

It’s better if women who don’t have dc aren’t seen as bad, deficient or lacking in any way. I want that social pressure to be defunct.

I appreciate that it's hard for many people. I genuinely didn't experience it in that way though - I love my job, but I also loved being with my dd throughout every stage of her development. I found it fascinating to see how she learned and developed, and deeply rewarding to see her character and personality emerging.

We are all different, though, and parenthood doesn't suit everyone. My closest friend also found it very hard. I hope things get a bit easier for you soon.

I don’t want children. It’s as simple as that and I’m glad I was born at a time (and in a country) that allows me the choice.

being a mum is by far and away the single most rewarding thing that I've ever done. Why wouldn't most people want that?

Because there's no predicting the outcome. If kids came on a sale or return basis 😁 perhaps people would want that; but they don't, once they're here they're here. If you're at all ambivalent about parenthood ( and even if you aren't) it doesn't always work out to be the single most rewarding thing a parent has done but you're stuck with it. You only have to be on here to realise that.

We had a sex education series like that at 11. Of my group of four close friends three of us are childfree and we don't know about the fourth. Really grim.

easier for women to maintain their careers, more expectation on men to step up and share the load, more flexible working, more subsidised childcare etc.

And that isn't by any means always the case, either.