....to think that retiring away from the city is bonkers?

[NewGrandmummy]

Inspired by another thread about moving away from London with small children, I wonder if anyone else has done as I have done, and actually moved back to London (or another major city) as preparation for retirement?

I truly don't understand the 'let's retire to the seaside/a rural smallholding/a tiny village' that seems to be in so many older people's minds. Why do that at a time of life when you will most likely have to give up driving at some point? How will you get to the supermarket/doctor/dentist/hospital/cinema/pub etc?

I'd love to hear from those who've moved out of London/a city for retirement and regretted it, or those who, like me, are moving towards civilisation (rather than away from it) as they get older.

I've lived in cities and yes there is infrastructure but it's rare to find community spirit and support in a city at the same level as that in a small town or village.

Cities are more transient, younger, busier. In general people have less time for each other.

I watched my parents grow old in the city. Their neighbours came and went, they went to work early and came home late. By the time my parents died they knew nobody in their street.

I've lived rurally and it's not all cream teas and jam. If the core village people decide they don't like you, and at some point they will because there is nothing else to do other than start petty arguments, then it can be a lonely place.

I lived in London before moving out to a village miles away (Not my choice, dh’s work) I spent 12 years there and I have never been so lonely in all my life

If you didn’t go to church, drink alcohol or have children then no one would hold any sort of conversation with you bar a cashier telling you how much you owed at the end of your shop. Although I was told once that I was a dirty southerner (I am from much further north than this area and with a very distinctive northern accent).

I went years without speaking to another human being outside of dh who loved the area because he went to the pub and very night

Dh’s job moved back to London and so did we. Within weeks I had friends, a social life and told dh that if he ever got a job where we had to move outside the M25 he was on his own.

I haven't lived in a village for many years and never had your experience, but I totally agree about community in London. In all the neighbourhoods I've lived in (and one area, a main road near the Old St roundabout, that isn't a neighbourhood in any generally used sense of the term), I've had people get to recognise me fast, ask after me, wave and stop me to chat in the street etc, as a minimum. (I now live in a definite neighbourhood with a very well-developed sense of community).
I'm not saying villages don't have community, but I do tire of the repeated refrain that cities don't have it. IME of 26 years in London it just isn't true.

It really depends on the village. I lived in one that was sprawling and had no centre or social life.
The village I am in now is the complete opposite .. pub and hall and tiny primary school create a community where we all support each other and there is something going on every day.
So if you plan to go for rural when you retire you need to do your research very thoroughly.

I've lived in a city and in a suburban commuter town and there is far more community in every area of the city I've lived in than the town.

I wouldn’t choose to liver rurally in old age, but I would also never choose to live in London.

All this shows is that the “away from the city”
is over simplified

where in the city, where outside the city can all give very different experiences

100% this. Cities (and medium to large towns) don't have the same community spirit and friendship as villages and small market towns. The smaller places generally have one big event, and just one set of shops/one high street, and everyone goes to it. And they have generally quite friendly neighbourhoods. In the bigger places, people are more widespread and far flung, and there is very little community.

People will, of course, insist we are wrong saying this, and they have a lovely community in their area of the pollution filled, highly populated, busy, noisy city they live, that is exactly like any in a village, if not better.

But most of us here have lived in cities and large towns at some point, and we know it's not true.

I grew up in a small old mining town, which was lovely, full of community spirit, lots of extended family within a mile, all your friends lived within a mile. everybody knew everybody, everybody worked not far from where they lived, and everyone socialised at the same social clubs, or in one of the 3 local pubs...

I moved to a big city at around 19-20, lived there for 2-3 years, and found it cold and unfriendly, and transient. Most people came and went quickly, and didn't stay in touch. There was lots of backstabbing, and no true friendships too.

I then moved to a medium sized to large sized town (population around 100,000,) some 12-13 miles from where I grew up (in a new-build suburb - the cul-de-sac inside a cul-de-sac inside a cul-de-sac kind of place,) that was full of yuppies and people desperate to be middle class. Not very friendly people, all trying to keep up with the Joness... Moved somewhere similar after 5-6 years and this was pretty much the same.

Then I moved to a little village some 14-15 years ago, with a parish hall, a Church, hobby groups, coffee meetings, something going on at the parish hall around once a month, fortnightly bingo, fayres and car boot sales and all sorts.

Very friendly people, everyone speaks to you when they see you, and there always someone to help in an emergency. It's like the when I was growing up. I doubt I will ever leave. I love it here.

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Wow. So you're saying because I have a different experience to you, and live in a friendly city community, I'm a liar?

The city in which I live is known as the city of villages because it grew over time absorbing surrounding hamlets, villages and rural settlements. Different areas of the city have very different feels because of this. However whilst some people would say the area they live in feels like a village and they know their neighbours, use local shops etc not all areas are like that and you can still feel alone in a city of thousands.

The smaller places generally have one big event, and just one set of shops/one high street, and everyone goes to it. And they have generally quite friendly neighbourhoods
IME London is a collection of villages all put together. You find one you like and it becomes your village/neighbourhood. That's what I've always found. I have one set of shops/high street (well, actually, two, at right angles to each other), and generally friendly neighbours.

People will, of course, insist we are wrong saying this… But most of us here have lived in cities and large towns at some point, and we know it's not true.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience of a city. But that's not a good reason to say that people who tell you they've found community in a city or large town are not telling the truth. Why do you think would people tell you a lie like that? Not to mention why would you assume they were lying?

@RikthePoet @trainboundfornowhere @AlwaysExtraHot

Please accept my apologies. I worded it very badly! I should have said (and I actually meant) some people say they find little communities in cities, like you would in a village, but I don't think this is the experience for many, and most people find cities a bit transient and cold.

I'm sorry. I wasn't implying anyone was a liar! I just have different experiences - as some others - of cities, not being very friendly, or community minded.

Forgive me. 🙏

Nice of you to apologise, but I still take some issue with 'I don't think this is the experience for many, and most people find cities a bit transient and cold.'
I don't think you can confidently say that just from personal experience.

I was just going on the comments on this thread, and my own experience, and that of people I know...

And it's JMO. I know people have different opinions based on their own experiences and the experiences of people they know.

Sorry I offended you/anyone else.. please don't take it to heart.

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I think you're taking what you want from the comments? I suspect there are an equal number saying the opposite to what you've said. My experience of cities, both growing up in NYC and living in London, have been nothing remotely like yours.

Fair enough @user58643296 !

I wonder if there are different experiences from people who have lived in the same area of London all their life versus people who have moved to London for work for example

and different areas of London are likely to be different experiences also

so one person may have experienced great lonlinesss and another find it very friendly

https://www.ons.gov.uk/visualisations/dvc1262/alwaysoftenmap/index.html

Very good points @backformoreofthesame

I've lived in several cities - one northen we were in suburb - like an engulfed village with high street and lovely community - yet another rnorthen city we'd been in city center no community and struggled to access things like GP and dentists because they were all in outskirts still - (suspect in years since that has changed). Not just city but where you are in a city impacts how it feels.

I've live in towns and a village - they had different pro and cons to them but were very different experinces.

I think what needs to be done is some thought into what's close by what the area like and the house - so if /when as you age you decline how you'll manage that.

If you lifelong ambition is to live up a mountain in back of beyond and you can do that at 50 - I wouldn't say don't ever do it just be aware mid 70s onwards that will be a very different experience to when younger - you may need to move and not want to at that age.

My Il great location wise but house has one toilet up staies and they shrug and say with no research oh we'll get a stair lift - given how steep narrow and stair/landing comb at top I'm not sure that actaully an option. FIl already fell down stairs and gas to use a comode in only living area - open plan. They do not want to move now or think about it - few years ago they could have got a more adpatable house in same location.

I think beach may well suit us in old age - lots of walks and changing scenery but will depend on price and what is there and what bus routes access there are to hospitals - GP nearby. When we moved not driving we've always considered access to ammentities and public transport - I think many who drive do not have to so it feels odd thing to do.

All places are different. I'm glad you've found somewhere that works well for you.

Suburban commuter towns probably have lots of people who travel out for work during the day. From my experience rural market towns are very different from suburban commuter towns.

OP IMO YANBU. We live in a village that does have crap public transport, FIL lives next door. Because we’re classed as ‘rural’ (and therefore an expensive PITA) the only agency that SS can get to cover FIL’s 4x daily personal care visits is rated as ‘requires improvement’- appreciate that’s specific to us, here, but yes they really are rubbish.

Those of you praising village community need to remember that people who continually need things from other people will come to be seen as a burden, regardless of how saintly their neighbours are. Moving to the sticks because ‘the community will rally’ to cover your transport to, wait time, and return trip from doctors/dentists/hospital/chiropodist/tesco etc is short-sighted and plain selfish.

Those of you praising village community need to remember that people who continually need things from other people will come to be seen as a burden, regardless of how saintly their neighbours are.
Ain't that the truth.
DH and I, along with several other families on our road, have become the default carers for one of our neighbours since her husband died and yes, it is a burden. We are all decent people so nobody is going to see the old lady cold, starving or unable to attend her medical appointments, but it would be a stretch to say that nobody minds doing it. In the immediate aftermath of her husband's sudden death, sure, everyone rallied round and was very sympathetic, but 2 years down the line that's starting to wear a bit thin.
We are not horrible people, just people with jobs, families, caring responsibilities for our own elderly relatives and so on. Providing long term support for someone just because they bought a house near yours is an inconvenience, and that is magnified if you live somewhere like we do where everything involves travel and there's no public transport. Our neighbour would probably need some support wherever she lived it's true, but if there was a bus to the doctor's surgery and even a village shop where she could buy a loaf of bread and a pint of milk she would be able to manage a lot more herself. But as it is, we community spirited villagers pick up those jobs and she is said to be "living independently". DH and I don't want to impose on people like that when we are older so will definitely be moving whilst we are still able to look after ourselves.

is there no one who can talk to her about other options? Not about moving but getting care, taking taxis and so on?

What this woman is doing is my parents' plan for their old age. We'll see if the community does indeed step up. I've told them how people are going to feel about it.