Kemi B - the best form of welfare is a well paying job...

[Oofftheflooff]

She is absolutely right isn't she? Discussing the triple lock pension challenge and instead focusing on getting people into work. Do you agree with her ? Working 3 or 6 or 9 hours to then top up with benefits isn't the way forward (not including disabilities in here )

Plenty of people under this government surviving on crap wages, working all hours to get more money in. Those are the people we should be applauding - the ones who are too proud to go on benefits. This used to be common practice. Working long hours for a better life. Now too many choose benefits.

So where are Labour building gas storage units?
Their obsession with net zero is going to bankrupt the lot of us.

And that's fine As long as they aren't on benefits to do so. Children brought up in work less families are more likely to follow suit

No. Because they don't exist, much like in every other similar tale that is trotted out. I hoped the BMW would be a giveaway!

That’s if you can even find a retail job these days. High automation has cut many.

Exactly. I do not believe for one minute that everyone can have a well paying job.

It indicates a healthy economy, which we haven't had for decades.

She’s not wrong exactly but is unrealistic because s people get paid more the goal posts change as to the minimum amount to have even a basic standard of living. Housing in particular is very sensitive to wage inflation, and it’s naive at best to say just earn more money. Tweaking welfare programs as to job search commitments, levels of assistance, cash or non cash benefits etc is just around the edges, you will always have people who cannot support themselves legitimately, you will always have those who want to play that system of support for truly vulnerable people and you will always have people who fall through the cracks through no fault of their own.

Sound bites at a party conference are just that, it’s not based in reality, not everyone can work.

Where are all the jobs then? Graduate jobs are being chased by thousands. Lower paying jobs are being done by cheap imported labour. I live in a very White English-origin area - why are all the delivery jobs round here being done by single men who have literally just arrived in the country from outside Western Europe? Kemi Badenoch knows perfectly well that the economy (including all our pension funds) is held up by a steady supply of cheap labour, much of it from abroad. She’s a massive hypocrite if she implies anything else.

Work is good. My disabled DS (who gets PIP) works and it gives him so much.

But getting certain groups of people into work and keeping them there isn't going to be achieved by cutting benefits - it's going to take investment. Getting to a state where a full time job allows someone the essentials of a warm comfortable home, decent food, transport, health and education is going to take more than cheap benefit bashing soundbites. Kemi is just spouting more of the same old Tory bollocks that failed for the 14 years they were in power, and if free childcare for the rich is all she's offering then you're a mug to think she's anything but useless.

If we have to import our gas then of course we are at the mercy of other nations, who can stop exporting to us and blackmail us, like the U.S. did recently. And of course it’s more expensive, so our bills are higher.

Meanwhile, back in the real world that doesnt actually happen.

There are a few issues w our current system.

Firstly, we subsidise companies not paying a decent wage. For me that is absolutely bonkers. You cant run a country like that. Outgoings outstripping income equals future catastrophe.

Secondly, and this may be controversial, is that whilst everyone has a right to have children, rights come w responsibilities. I do believe western societies do not emphasise that if you have children, the social contract is you pay for them.

We had one even though my partner wanted two. Why? We cant afford two. Thats it. For us it wasnt an option to rely on the state, its just not something either of our families believe in.

That said, I do believe we need to focus on state subsidised childcare. That would allow parents to go to work, pay tax etc.

Another option could be that large employers provide no-profit childcare for employees. They charge cost covering but dont profit from the childcare.

I am all for families and for supporting those in need. That only works if people dont abuse the system.

She's not wrong, but then if her lot have got all the answers and it's so fucking easy then why didn't everybody who wanted one have a well paying job and why wasn't the benefits bill much lower at the end of their last 14-year stint in power? She has a pop at Andy Burnham for 'vibes' but that's all this is too. They preached low taxes and cracking down on 'spongers' all the way through (and before), their last go and look where we are. Why should I listen to the same thing now?

I don’t agree that one parent should be able to work less hours if it means the state funds the shortfall. Minimum 30 hours.

It depends whether she is using the word "welfare" in the general sense (well-being, health, happiness, prosperity) or in the specific sense meaning financial or other assistance from a government source. If the former then sure, having a well-paying job (and even more so, the ability to get a different one if circumstances change) would contribute to someone's welfare. If in the specific sense (which I suspect, since you mention the context of the triple lock on pensions) then she has either misunderstood the meaning or is suggesting the government should provide citizens with well-paying jobs. I'm not necessarily opposed to that last idea but if it was so obvious why did her party never take any effective steps toward it between 2012 and 2025?

Society needs people earning over 100k to breed, they are the most successful and sucess is partly due to genetic factors. So I am for free childcare for the those earning over 100K.

This in spades

Lol, do people really believe bollocks like this? Not defending the NI rise but... when did it happen? And when did wages stagnate? And doesn't that mean your simplistic cause and effect isn't even close to holding up?

In fairness, without back benchers they get nothing through. Maybe we should elect better representatives.

And what about the jobs that are not well paid but are essential like care work?

it's a glib political statement tossed off without thinking through the actual consequences of that

Most care workers actually manage to live without claiming UC

There aren't enough jobs for everyone who's unemployed or working pt to be ft. Some people can't manage full time work with their caring responsibilities and/or own disability or ill health.
Maybe the standard working work should reduce to 3 or 4 days. It would make it more accessible to people with other responsibilities/needs and there'd be more positions available. I know it's not a simple solution and people would probably still need top up benefits, but if we want people to be in work there needs to be jobs for them to go in to.

yes, well paying jobs are hard to find and meanwhile the government picks up the wages bill for large operate companies. You'd think they'd be embarrassed at the wages they pay, but they lap up all the freebies and then try and stitch their employees up on holiday pay and the like.

Ive seen enough wage slips on front line of benefits to realise who is ripping off who and it isn't the benefit claimant in may many cases - but the press would have you believe that the few that diddle the system, ar ether issue. When its really the low paying wages

back int he 1960/1970s the unions were far to powerful and it meant you couldn't get a job in some areas of manufacturing unless you knew someone who could get you "in" wages were high and ver the next 2 decades the unions lost their powers, in most cases it was far to harsh

we need a middle ground of unions obtaining better wages for people to live on and not be topped up in full time work with tax payers money. What we don't want is to go to swing to far to the unions having to much power and strangulating economic growth

Well yes. Such a shame they’re so hard to come buy and that we have such a low wage economy.

on a midwifery fb group I’m in someone who has recently qualified and been offered a job is discussing not accepting it as she will be better off on universal credit (she has kids). How can someone have more money being unemployed than being a midwife! 🤷‍♀️.

I suppose the problem is that if wages go up, the price of “stuff” goes up. Do we end up better off? Or would we be like the USA where a retail worker is on 40k a year and a lettuce costs £10 (am making figures up for illustration).