AIBU to reconsider a long friendship over support for education tax?

[CoconutRumcake]

A close friend of over 15 years last night unashamedly said she supported the children’s education tax. To put this in context, she is godmother to my ds and has seen first hand what damage this has done to children and families as well as her own sister losing her job when the school closed. She had maybe drank too much and has apologised over text this morning, but I really can’t shake the feeling that I don’t want to be around her.
AIBU -try and move past it
YANBU -it’s run it’s time

It’s a tax on education and vocational training services supplied to children. I’ve said this over and over and supplied the link. It’s accurate terminology. You may call it as you wish but I’ll stick to what HMRC call it. The reason you take issue is you don’t like to think of yourself as someone who supports taxing children’s education, you should explore that further.

I will be affected by mansion tax once we move, but it won’t last long before Labour are gone and it’s not punitive aimed at disrupting children so I’m less pissed off about it.

Oh no! My mansion!

YABU because "education tax" is not a thing. If you are talking about the luxury that is private school and the associated VAT that is paid on that, as all luxury goods and serivces... well, you are still being unreasonable.

Yes, you can learn things online for free...
You can also have private tutors, educated parents who have the time and knowledge to help you, better schools, smaller classes, books and enrichment from birth, extracurriculars, connections, social capital, a quiet place to study, and parents who can give you the time and financial security to actually make the most of all of it. Those things compound. They give you more opportunities to develop whatever "innate ability" you might have in the first place.
Take two children with exactly the same ability and determination. One has all of that behind them and the other doesn't. Are you seriously going to tell me they'll have the same opportunities and the same likelihood of success because "you can learn online for free"? Honestly.

That's the whole fucking point. Hard work exists. Talent exists. But neither exists in a vacuum, and the starting points aren't remotely equal. Meritocracy is a MYTH (nworking hard is not enough all of the time to succeed and thats structural and intentional )* * Do you actually understand what that means, because I'm starting to think the concept might be a bit beyond you.

And none of that takes away from what your husband has achieved. He can have worked incredibly hard and be very talented, and perhaps he genuinely did achieve what he did through a huge amount of hard work. Good for him. That still doesn't change the fact that most people don't start from the same position, and the systems around us aren't set up equally for everyone.

I agree entirely that all children should have equal rights to the best education. I admit I "played the system" for my DSs.

I went through public school and Oxford myself. I couldn't have afforded it for them without already knowing about bursaries and scholarships, for their school and for Oxbridge. And the confidence to ask.

I know, it isn't fair. If they had gone to state school they would still have been fine: excellent state schools in an affluent area.

For what it's worth, they both do outreach to state schools.

Your level of anger over this is really odd, do you even know the stats of how many parents removed their kids from private education as a result? All the private school parents in my circles just paid the VAT and didn’t grumble, not even a whiff of private school closures in my area. It seems a really odd thing to be angry about.

So does my household. Except neither of us nor jointly together do we earn 6 figures. We've both pursued lifelong careers associated with people rather than money and caring about people pays far less than caring about money. Do we not work hard? Are we not determined to be the best we can be in our careers?

I remember when I first earned over £100k, I thought at last all our problems are over even if I was working 69 hours a week…I’d never heard about the 62% tax

Look OP, I see your position. The increase in fees is a nightmare. We pay a shit load of tax and want the best for our children. It’s a rubbish policy. And the welfare bill is shocking. But if you’re treating your friend as evil and stupid then you are not her friend and she is better off without you. In principle I see the arguments for the VAT increase and if I didn’t have children I’d agree with it. You can thank the brexit voters for this tax change, the EU would never have allowed it.

either get a grip and start acting like a friend. Treating her with unconditional positive regard or end it and leave her in peace. I feel sorry for her. You’re not being a great friend right now.

But it is a tax and it is on education, so why wouldn't you call it an "education tax "?

Having VAT on private education is not allowed in the EU and heavily restricted in the EEA. So that creates an interesting dilemma for Andy Burnham's desire for a closer relationship with Europe.

This thread has to be a wind up. No one can be this stupid and arrogant at once surely!

This is proof you have absolutely no idea how the UK really works.

Why do you think universities have to have positive action schemes for people from low income backgrounds? It's not because they're not bright. It's that they haven't had the opportunities other kids have had.

Why are there all women shortlists in politics (particularly Labour)? It's not because women aren't as good as men at politics.

Why do organisations have to report their gender and ethnicity pay gaps? It's not because women and non white people are worse at their jobs.

Do me a favour and take some time to actually get out of your bubble and see people for who they really are.

So....private healthcare, nursery care, social care,sports lessons, music lessons, private tutoring, any ki d of extra curricular activity that might give a child an edge over another?

94% of British children go to state school. It is not a tax on education or on children. If parents can’t afford private school then they can send their kids to the school that almost everyone else does. Private schooling should be banned anyway though.

It’s a tax on education and vocational training services supplied to children

It’s a tax on PRIVATE education and PRIVATE vocational training services supplied to children.

There, I have amended this for you. Why are you so averse to using the word "private"? By not using the term "private" the implication is all education and vocational training.

There is no such term as education tax in common usage.

👏🏼

Well I can understand why you’re not angry, it’s just a tax that someone else pays and someone else’s children having to move schools or lose their jobs. I’m sure taxing children's education will catch on in the rest of the world. Thanks for sharing.

Not if you don't have access to your own device and have to share it with other members of your family. Remember Covid home learning and the schemes to get devices out to kids who otherwise literally couldn't access home learning.

And I worked with a young person who had set up his own business but had to pause it because he couldn't afford the broadband.

You can only learn online if you have access to a device and can afford the broadband/mobile data.

There are loads of private schools that have closed.

You lot should be paying more tax anyway.

Exactly. For someone whose income is in the top 2% of the UK the OP's listening, comprehending, processing and assimilating skills are poor.

If the provider isn't VAT registered because their turnover is less than £90,000 then there's no VAT. I would have thought someone as forensically interested in the VAT on private school fees as the OP would bother to do a little research. But perhaps she leaves that to her assistant...

Apologies you are correct. I rephrased it from the website and changed the meaning inadvertently.

...you have a higher income than around 98% of the population - equivalent to about 66.9 million individuals.

Ha ha, its literally called the education and vocational training value added tax.

It’s very obvious that it’s not a tax on top of tax payer funded education services, it would be 20% of £0. You can pretend it is that way if you so wish. I think it’s important people understand what it is they support, lots of people still think this is a tax on private schools profits or something to do charitable status.

That's quite enough of telling me what I think and why. How can you possibly know, never having met me, to my knowledge. I explained in my first post on this thread that as someone who had paid for two years of private education, I support VAT being paid by private schools and I have no problem in this case with being a person who supports taxing children's education. I would gladly state this to absolutely anyone, were it to come up in conversation. For parents who cannot or don't want to pay higher fees, the state will provide (in most cases).

For someone whose income is in the top 2% of the UK the OP's listening, comprehending, processing and assimilating skills are poor.

I would love to know how someone so inept earns so much.