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AIBU to reconsider a long friendship over support for education tax?

1000 replies

CoconutRumcake · 03/10/2026 10:46

A close friend of over 15 years last night unashamedly said she supported the children’s education tax. To put this in context, she is godmother to my ds and has seen first hand what damage this has done to children and families as well as her own sister losing her job when the school closed. She had maybe drank too much and has apologised over text this morning, but I really can’t shake the feeling that I don’t want to be around her.
AIBU -try and move past it
YANBU -it’s run it’s time

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Worrall20 · 03/10/2026 20:27

randomchap · 03/10/2026 20:16

You don't remember rightly, the truss budget caused the UK bond market issues at the time

i remember very clearly, as I stated, ‘the bond market recovered quickly after the Truss mini budget’ actually within days after Jeremy Hunt scrapped her policies and Truss resigning! So not sure what you are saying?

randomchap · 03/10/2026 20:30

Worrall20 · 03/10/2026 20:27

i remember very clearly, as I stated, ‘the bond market recovered quickly after the Truss mini budget’ actually within days after Jeremy Hunt scrapped her policies and Truss resigning! So not sure what you are saying?

So for clarity, the market crashed after the Truss budget, and then recovered after Hunt scrapped her changes.

CoconutRumcake · 03/10/2026 20:31

JassyRadlett · 03/10/2026 20:16

I really am so excited to learn what taxes you think don't create losers as well as winners.

Calm down lol. Well most taxes don’t get linked to a particular issue, and in reality they aren’t. It was just basic propaganda from Labour to stir up resentment by linking independent schools to state, but hey it worked. So Labour have put this idea of fancy independent selfish posh school kids losing and lovely nice salt if the earth working class children winning ‘our children’ as Phillipson put it. But really 1 billion will be added to the 1.4 trillion government spending.
So in terms of winners and losers, on this everyone loses .,nobody gains anything unless you count fewer independent schools as a win, Taxing education will not improve education. In general taxes are wide spread so hard to determine winners or losers, these targeted ideological taxes on particular people I.e indecent school kids and landlords are quite a new sort of way of doing things. When the income tax thresholds get frozen for 3 more years, I know everyone who works loses but I don’t know the winners to be honest

OP posts:
randomchap · 03/10/2026 20:31

CoconutRumcake · 03/10/2026 20:19

Gilt yields are way higher now than even the peak of Truss, they’re at a 30 year high.

Yes, for multiple countries, not just the UK. You may not have noticed the damage Trump's war in Iran is causing the global economy.

EasternStandard · 03/10/2026 20:33

CoconutRumcake · 03/10/2026 20:31

Calm down lol. Well most taxes don’t get linked to a particular issue, and in reality they aren’t. It was just basic propaganda from Labour to stir up resentment by linking independent schools to state, but hey it worked. So Labour have put this idea of fancy independent selfish posh school kids losing and lovely nice salt if the earth working class children winning ‘our children’ as Phillipson put it. But really 1 billion will be added to the 1.4 trillion government spending.
So in terms of winners and losers, on this everyone loses .,nobody gains anything unless you count fewer independent schools as a win, Taxing education will not improve education. In general taxes are wide spread so hard to determine winners or losers, these targeted ideological taxes on particular people I.e indecent school kids and landlords are quite a new sort of way of doing things. When the income tax thresholds get frozen for 3 more years, I know everyone who works loses but I don’t know the winners to be honest

Edited

On the plus side whichever way the next GE goes the spiteful woeful Labour policy will likely be dropped.

sosomewhereelse · 03/10/2026 20:35

CoconutRumcake · 03/10/2026 19:36

I don’t know why you come up with the opinion I don’t care about children simply because I oppose doing harm to children via spiteful punitive legislation? Perhaps I don’t campaign for other things involving children but I certainly don’t actively try and cause them harm because of prejudice and ideological reasons and then dress it up in self righteous nonsense.

When you unravel all the fluff it’s wrapped up in, your argument simply comes down to I don't want/could’t afford that choice therefore I don’t want anyone else’s children to have that choice. It’s no way for an adult to behave.

The condescension in this is quite something. You've managed to reduce everything I wrote to "fluff" and boil it all down to "you can't afford it so you don't want anyone else to have it". That's a very convenient way of avoiding what I actually said and patronising me instead.

Seriously, how is any of what I wrote "fluff"? My point is really simple. If there are things you think private schools provide that are genuinely important for children, why shouldn't those things be available to children generally? Smaller classes, better facilities, more opportunities, whatever it is. Why should a child only get those things because their parents have enough money to buy them? I don't think access to a better education should depend on the size of your parents' bank account. Please enlighten me as to why that's such an unreasonable position.

And calling it "spiteful punitive legislation" doesn't actually engage with that argument. You're using words like "spiteful", "punitive", "harm" and "prejudice" to frame support for the policy as if it can only come from wanting to hurt children. That's a pretty easy and convenient way of dismissing an argument without actually examining it. Although, from the number of times you've commented on this thread, it does seem to be the only tool in your shed.
I'm not, and no one is, saying "let's punish private-school children". I'm saying I don't think access to a different tier of education should depend on parental wealth. If there are things you think children genuinely lose by not going private, then those are exactly the things I'd want available in the state system too. Why should the answer be protecting wealthy parents' ability to buy them?

And honestly, reducing all of that to "you couldn't afford it so you're jealous" is pretty insulting and fucking lazy. You have no idea what I can afford, and my position would be exactly the same if I were a billionaire. I don't think money should buy your child access to a different tier of education. The fact you've jumped straight to "jealousy" says rather more about your own assumptions and your rather blinkered view of privilege than it does about me.

You don't get to turn a political argument about inequality into a little story about me being bitter because it's easier to dismiss than actually engage with. If you're going to reply to what I've written, engage with what I'm actually saying rather than waving it away as "fluff", unless; you can't...

Ally886 · 03/10/2026 20:36

My children's school is over an hour away so I pay more tax on fuel than tution fees.

Can I disagree with this fuel tax?

Worrall20 · 03/10/2026 20:37

Whistonia · 03/10/2026 20:14

What about the ordinary working people who can’t afford to send SEN children to private school.

Do not understand what your point is? Lots of people did not send their children to private school, myself included! My children were not SEN but friends who had children with additional needs found that their needs were not being meet by the state schools. They then chose to send them to private school, they are just normal hard working people. The tax that the government has implemented will not affect the rich people, they can afford it, but normal working class people and it is just a policy based on spite and undermines any aspirations.

MyWilly · 03/10/2026 20:37

To all the rejoiners in the chat.... EU law explicitly demands that private schools actually be 0% VATed.. So you admit this is a Brexit freedom?

Butterflyfluff · 03/10/2026 20:38

OP, simple yes or no.

Can you afford the alternative private school offerings in your area now?

CoconutRumcake · 03/10/2026 20:38

randomchap · 03/10/2026 20:31

Yes, for multiple countries, not just the UK. You may not have noticed the damage Trump's war in Iran is causing the global economy.

well no other country has gilts but I get what you mean. Unfortunately it’s not true, 10 year German bunds are 3.4% compared to gilt 5.8%. The markets do not have confidence that the Government can manage the economy and I agree, obviously the energy shock plays its part.

OP posts:
Worrall20 · 03/10/2026 20:39

randomchap · 03/10/2026 20:30

So for clarity, the market crashed after the Truss budget, and then recovered after Hunt scrapped her changes.

Yep as I said twice earlier?

CoconutRumcake · 03/10/2026 20:41

Butterflyfluff · 03/10/2026 20:38

OP, simple yes or no.

Can you afford the alternative private school offerings in your area now?

There isn’t anything close enough, but the answer would be yes if we cut back again if there was. We’ve actually decided to go the other way and buy near an outstanding state school for secondary and tutor if needs be…. that’s the plan right now anyway. Looking back we were too stretched once tax came in.

OP posts:
BridalFeastofBethChadruharazzeb · 03/10/2026 20:42

CoconutRumcake · 03/10/2026 11:47

I do get what you’re saying but you do have to question what type of person thinks like that though. It’s a very whacky view point, like I say she’s not your average woe is me Brexiter on benefits type

How the fuck is it a wacky viewpoint?

I have to pay vat on nearly everything, any service I get, like for my car, or my bathroom. What the hell is so special about schools that means they shouldn't have to?

Newbutoldfather · 03/10/2026 20:44

Congratulations OP,

You have no friend or you don’t much care about your friendship.

You just wanted to sneak a VAT on private school fees thread on to AIBU. You’ve not engaged in a single comment about whether it is reasonable to lose touch with your ‘friend’ over this, but, oh boy, you’ve loved to debate the VAT issue.

Put this thread in education or private school, where it belongs.

RampantIvy · 03/10/2026 20:44

CoconutRumcake · 03/10/2026 18:38

This is a snip I have copied and pasted from this link that you have posted several times

Since 1 January 2025, all education services and vocational training provided by PRIVATE schools in the UK for a charge have been subject to VAT at the standard rate of 20%. This also applies to boarding services provided by PRIVATE schools.

Why do you keep omitting the word "private"? I have not changed any of the text, simply highlighted the word "private" for your benefit.

This is another snip that I have copied and pasted

If the education is being provided for no charge (for example, local authority maintained schools, city technology colleges, sixth form colleges, academies and free schools, see paragraph 3.2). The VAT consequences are that this is not ‘in business’ for VAT purposes (see section 3) and:

  • the education provided is outside the scope of VAT
  • any closely related goods or services provided, at or below cost, are outside the scope of VAT

I don't think this can make it any clearer that this is about PRIVATE education, not all education.

For the record I don't have strong opinions about private education or VAT on school fees, but I am intensely irritated by your refusal to understand and accept the facts.

Butterflyfluff · 03/10/2026 20:44

CoconutRumcake · 03/10/2026 20:41

There isn’t anything close enough, but the answer would be yes if we cut back again if there was. We’ve actually decided to go the other way and buy near an outstanding state school for secondary and tutor if needs be…. that’s the plan right now anyway. Looking back we were too stretched once tax came in.

So the crux of this whole debate is private education is now out of your reach.

Welcome to the real world!

Your argument is disgusting to be honest.

RampantIvy · 03/10/2026 20:46

Interestingly, has anyone noticed the irony that the votes closely correlate with the percentage of children up to 16 in private education?

The YABU at 94% and the YANBU at 6% 😁

CoconutRumcake · 03/10/2026 20:51

RampantIvy · 03/10/2026 20:44

This is a snip I have copied and pasted from this link that you have posted several times

Since 1 January 2025, all education services and vocational training provided by PRIVATE schools in the UK for a charge have been subject to VAT at the standard rate of 20%. This also applies to boarding services provided by PRIVATE schools.

Why do you keep omitting the word "private"? I have not changed any of the text, simply highlighted the word "private" for your benefit.

This is another snip that I have copied and pasted

If the education is being provided for no charge (for example, local authority maintained schools, city technology colleges, sixth form colleges, academies and free schools, see paragraph 3.2). The VAT consequences are that this is not ‘in business’ for VAT purposes (see section 3) and:

  • the education provided is outside the scope of VAT
  • any closely related goods or services provided, at or below cost, are outside the scope of VAT

I don't think this can make it any clearer that this is about PRIVATE education, not all education.

For the record I don't have strong opinions about private education or VAT on school fees, but I am intensely irritated by your refusal to understand and accept the facts.

Yes a tax on all non government funded children’s education and vocational training, they can’t really tax something people don’t pay for although I’m sure they’d have a good go. Can you be specific as to what fact it is that I am misunderstanding or not accepting?

OP posts:
Interestingnamesuggestion · 03/10/2026 20:53

RampantIvy · 03/10/2026 20:46

Interestingly, has anyone noticed the irony that the votes closely correlate with the percentage of children up to 16 in private education?

The YABU at 94% and the YANBU at 6% 😁

I can't vote because I think OP would be unreasonable to end the friendship over it but I also think the VAT and the way it was introduced and applied was wrong.
I don't think you can take the vote results as a measure of opinions on the VAT issue.

JassyRadlett · 03/10/2026 20:53

CoconutRumcake · 03/10/2026 20:31

Calm down lol. Well most taxes don’t get linked to a particular issue, and in reality they aren’t. It was just basic propaganda from Labour to stir up resentment by linking independent schools to state, but hey it worked. So Labour have put this idea of fancy independent selfish posh school kids losing and lovely nice salt if the earth working class children winning ‘our children’ as Phillipson put it. But really 1 billion will be added to the 1.4 trillion government spending.
So in terms of winners and losers, on this everyone loses .,nobody gains anything unless you count fewer independent schools as a win, Taxing education will not improve education. In general taxes are wide spread so hard to determine winners or losers, these targeted ideological taxes on particular people I.e indecent school kids and landlords are quite a new sort of way of doing things. When the income tax thresholds get frozen for 3 more years, I know everyone who works loses but I don’t know the winners to be honest

Edited

Oh I've been perfectly calm, don't worry. Just keen to see if you are able engage outside your world view at all.

It's really clear that your bubble is really quite limited if you don't think that other taxes aren't linked to particular issues/hypothecated on where money needs to be spent in ways that can have quite devastating impacts on the "losers" from those policy choices.

These tax changes have hit you disproportionately and it's really hurt. I'm not denying that. And as I've said before, while those in the privileged position you and I are in are used to taking quite marginal pain from tax increases, we're not accustomed to quite such a big hit.

But just as much - if not more - hurt was suffered by those who had to shutter their businesses, or had their hours cut in half, or lost their jobs because employers NI was increased. However the NI increases weren't reacted to as " spiteful", from memory. Stupid, sure, but not spiteful.

There are a lot of taxes out there I agree with and a lot I don't; I don't think this one is a particular outlier either way.

BridalFeastofBethChadruharazzeb · 03/10/2026 20:54

CoconutRumcake · 03/10/2026 12:46

We pay circa £90k income tax annually to help fund schooling and 3 kids at independent schools saved £24k year for the tax payer in state schooling. Other than that I don’t spend much time thinking about it, I think I do my bit although seemingly it’s not enough for those who simply live off the tax payer.

So you earn at least £230,660 (based on your claim of paying 90k tax, possibly more - you say you pay that much ) and you had to take your child out of a fee paying school?

HM Treasury's latest tax-summary methodology puts education at 10.3% of public spending.

So that means you pay £90,000 is 10.3% of your tax bill, then:
£90,000 ÷ 10.3% = £873,786
So your total tax bill would be about £873,786.

If you're saying £90,000 is the amount of your tax that effectively goes toward education, based on the 10.3% public-spending share, then you'd need to be paying about £873,786 in total tax for 10.3% of it to equal £90,000.

For England/Wales/Northern Ireland, ignoring pension contributions and other reliefs, you'd need approximately:
£2.06 million a year
At that salary, roughly:
Gross salary: £2,060,000
Income Tax: ~£873,000
National Insurance: ~£41,000
Take-home after Income Tax + NI: ~£1.15 million
Average Income Tax rate:
~42.4%

So I dont think you meant that at all

Halepeeny · 03/10/2026 20:57

Interestingnamesuggestion · 03/10/2026 20:06

I used the link somebody posted and my household has a higher income than around 26% of the population.
So I'm afraid you're wrong.
Your heart doesn't have to bleed for us but you could at least be polite.

After tax you have a monthly income of approximately £3,760. The average private school fees are £24,000 including VAT. That suggests you spend half your annual income on school fees. Is that correct?

CoconutRumcake · 03/10/2026 20:57

Butterflyfluff · 03/10/2026 20:44

So the crux of this whole debate is private education is now out of your reach.

Welcome to the real world!

Your argument is disgusting to be honest.

Well part of it, yes

I don’t know what is disgusting about plurality of education and wanting as many people as possible to have as many education options for their children as possible. Historically it’s more people who want to limit children’s education options you want to watch out for, usually left wing governments coincidently.

OP posts:
RampantIvy · 03/10/2026 20:59

Interestingnamesuggestion · 03/10/2026 20:53

I can't vote because I think OP would be unreasonable to end the friendship over it but I also think the VAT and the way it was introduced and applied was wrong.
I don't think you can take the vote results as a measure of opinions on the VAT issue.

I agree with you about the VAT, even though DD was state educated I don't have a chip on my shoulder about private education.

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