AIBU to reconsider a long friendship over support for education tax?

[CoconutRumcake]

A close friend of over 15 years last night unashamedly said she supported the children’s education tax. To put this in context, she is godmother to my ds and has seen first hand what damage this has done to children and families as well as her own sister losing her job when the school closed. She had maybe drank too much and has apologised over text this morning, but I really can’t shake the feeling that I don’t want to be around her.
AIBU -try and move past it
YANBU -it’s run it’s time

Thanks for the fascinating thread, OP. It’s been a while since I’ve seen such a misinformed person shout from the rafters, proudly displaying their ignorance for all to see.

For PPs that have engaged with reasonable debate, I commend you. Consider the Scandic model, OP. It might genuinely blow your mind and perhaps open you to the idea that different opinions can be right and coexist. Shock horror!

It's EU law to keep this 0% VATed there's a reason for this. Education is seen as a public good. State education is untaxed so private is untaxed.

All those of you to clamour for an EU return (just so you can move abroad) you know you'd be banned by EU law to have a VAT on educational choice

It’s disgusting because you only give a shit about it now it’s out of your reach.

You clearly couldn’t have cared less about the vast majority of people for whom it was never even an option.

Why are you assuming that my school fees are the same as the national average? They're quite a lot less than that. Obviously I wouldn't be able to afford £24K per annum.
This is exactly my point, private education isn't only used by the rich, school fees aren't all super high, it really isn't a rich vs poor situation.
The VAT I now pay is less than a drop in the ocean for the government, but it's equivalent to more then a week's worth of groceries for me and it's really hard to afford. I don't mind people disagreeing over whether I should have to pay that but I do mind people laughing over it and saying things like welcome to how everyone else already lives.

I said we pay £90k income tax, so yes it’s around £240k gross between us both. We end up with about 11.5k a month, it was around £5k a month on the school. So after school fees, our decent earning of around £240k become equivalent earning £80k. I’m not pleading poverty and I didn’t have to move my children because of this, the school closed.
I couldn’t follow the bit about £2 million a year.

Public schools have always pushed for academic excellence, and you are correct OP that it's partly to attract overseas students, whose parents pay more money.

It's not as simple as that, however, because overseas students (usually from China or HK) will also achieve academically.

You say "there was burseries". Yes, there were bursaries available, and still are.

Granting bursaries and scholarships is a simple business decision: will this child improve our Oxbridge entrance success?

According to your posts, you have an enormous income. You can afford to send your children to any private school you choose.

I’d like it to be open to as many children as possible, surely the people attempting to limit options to government funded only and close down schools are the disgusting ones.

Can you be specific as to what fact it is that I am misunderstanding or not accepting?

Happily.

You keep referring to the "children's education tax" there is no such thing. There is such a things as VAT on private school fees. This is not a "children's education tax"

You also keep posting "There is a 20% tax on children (aged 4-18) education and vocational training services". Again there is no such thing because you are talking about private education.

Do you not understand that by omitting the word "private" that these terms become general to cover all education and not just private education?

Spending disposable income on education so the state doesn’t have to is seen as very bad here. Other electorates can see the benefit.

What a boring life we would lead if we only interacted with people who thought exactly as we do.

I am a complete atheist. One of my best friends is a lay preacher. I dont agree with her views, she doesnt agree with mine but when it comes to our friendship it really isnt a thing.

So where are your threads championing this belief prior to it affecting you personally?

You don’t have to be friends with anyone OP, even your DD godmother. But most adults can manage friendships with people who hold different views. You sound vituperative and deeply unpleasant about your friend, so I think it would be doing her a favour for you to step back.

I also wonder if you are ok- you are increasingly shrill, angry, very emotional to the point of hysteria, unable to engage logically (why do you keep posting that link? It’s SO odd) and respectfully with others and peculiarly obsessive about this issue.

FWIW I agree with your hopefully soon to be ex-friend, and am also a net tax payer and have been for many many years. She has no need to apologise. Your description of her being thick and reference to brexiters on benefits is particularly unpleasant. I hope whatever school your children are now at will act as a better influence to counter yours.

If this is real. Maybe we’ll get a thread of ‘My cordially divorced ex- husband’s new girlfriend agrees with the education tax VAT on private schools and our children have suffered terribly under this terrible policy, AIBU to expect him to dump her’ on 10 December?….

I only really have experience at prep schools and the burseries there were simply for people who couldn’t afford it, it wasn’t academically really selective but was in behaviour. From what I hear now, burseries are few and far between and largely for existing pupils who have fallen in hard times or can’t afford the education tax .

I assure you we could not afford to send our children to any private school we choose

Chsmpioning not implementing an education tax? I genuinely never thought anyone would be stupid enough to actually do it so can’t remember doing one.

So in principle I support the idea that parents should have the widest possible choice available to them when it comes to educating their children. The reality is that, for the vast majority of people in this country, the prospect of paying fees for private education at primary and/or secondary level is completely unattainable. In fact, most will struggle to afford to support/contribute towards those children should they opt to go to university, never mind pay additional costs to cover their core, state mandated, educational provision. Some will even be unable to afford extracurricular expenses; trips, groups etc.

I’m a HS Governor for a school in a multi academy trust. I’m fully aware of the huge challenges facing my school, the staff, our students and the wider community the school is part of. Whilst I’m sympathetic to the closure of your DC’s school and the impact that has had, I think your post is a little tone deaf when at our governor’s meetings we are having to talk about community food banks, donation programs for uniforms etc.

I have some friends who have different political views to mine. Despite being raised Catholic, I’m an atheist but I have a family member who is religious, and can, at times, be quite vociferous about it and gets easily offended/upset if you challenge her views. I wouldn’t cut off my friend. I wouldn’t go NC with my family member. In fact, I believe it’s healthy to have people around you who hold different views to you, as it stops you becoming entrenched in your beliefs and keeps your mind open to be challenged and reassess what you think you know and believe.

You despise your friend so going no contact sounds sensible.

And yes, private schools are there to educate children.

But first and foremost they are there to make money. They are private businesses and quite rightly should pay tax as such.

But what about those who couldn’t afford private options prior to the introduction of VAT (not an education tax)?

You literally only care about yourself in all this and it’s completely transparent.

No they are not all profit making. As has already been established.

It is VAT on education and vocational training to people aged between 5 abd 18, commonly referred to as ‘children’. Whilst it includes school fees it is not solely limited to them. It covers all non government funded children’s education.

It is obvious that you don’t pay tax on government funded education because you don’t pay for it. A lot of rather simple people (not saying you’re one of them) think this is a tax on private schools rather than children’s education, so calling it a private education tax would add to their misunderstanding.

I hope that clears it up for you, in short I call it a children’s education tax because that’s what is. I understand it might make you uncomfortable because you don’t like to think of yourself as someone who would support a children’s education tax, even if it is these ‘other’ children. Perhaps you should question why that is rather than worrying about what it’s called.

Like every change in how organise society, there will be some people for whom the changes impact them negatively.

Mostly, in recent years, it’s the most disadvantaged and the masses of ordinary working people that have had the negative impacts of changes. For once it’s the privileged few and oh my god how we have heard the whining on and on.

As someone who had a DC in private education for several years, it’s embarrassing the whining I see. It’s a massive luxury to be able to afford private education and it’s a privileged bubble. The people who can afford private education are by and large oblivious to the genuine struggles of ordinary working families and the most disadvantaged in society.

And now you want to ditch a friend because they think, what is essentially a fair tax, is right. A difference of opinion to you. Wow.

I find the OP's responses chilling in their stout refusal to engage in rational debate. I suppose this is the post-truth era, where if lies and half-truths are shouted loud enough and long enough, they eventually come to replace facts. It is very dispiriting.

"The people who can afford private education are by and large oblivious to the genuine struggles of ordinary working families and the most disadvantaged in society."
Yet again. I am apparently oblivious to the genuine struggles of ordinary hardworking families. This is not true at all.
Not all private schools are extremely expensive. Not all families who feel the need to put their children in private schools are richer than you.

This thread is full of lies and half truths and it isn't all on the OPs side by any means.

So you have a household income of £240,000 which, using the calculator I provided above, puts your income in the top 98% in the UK and you're thinking of losing a friendship because she doesn't understand how utterly privileged that makes you relative to the rest of the population!! Honestly, the absolute nerve to grumble at decisions you're making leaving you with a mere £6,500 per month to live on. Wow.