To ask if you watched Andy Burnham’s bloody good speech?

[Househunt2026]

As in actually watched it and didn’t just doom scroll the commentary? It was bold and honest and pragmatic and actually made me hopeful that we have someone at the helm with a vision for a better tomorrow who has Britain’s best interests at heart.

The National Care Service is a masterstroke, paid for out of scrapping the triple lock and the very real savings of reducing NHS bills on A&E and hospital beds for elderly who should be in care but have nowhere to go.

Scrapping right to buy and increasing council control of housing, boosting the technical education track for young people, pushing renewables, nuclear and energy sovereignty, public control of key utilities for water to get bills down and reduce pollution, investing in people & getting them back to work, leasehold reform by Christmas and everyone’s energy bill will be reduced by fast tracking decoupling energy prices from global gas pricing and by having no VAT on energy bills by TOMORROW!

You can watch the whole thing here and be directly informed instead of getting your perspective filtered through all the bots and misinformation peddlers online m.youtube.com/watch?v=jyjTT_55Gi0

I read your post and all I can hear is "me me me me me" ad nauseum. God forbid that the country should work for everyone, right? Surely only the well-to-do are deserving?

Name one government initiative we have had from the Tories that has made "sound economic sense". Actually if the right (or the wrong, as I prefer to call them) weren't running scared of Andy Burnham they might concede that a National Care Service does make sound economic sense - the elderly inadvertently bed-blocking because there is no clear, fast route into care is costing a fortune. The only thing that doesn't make sound economic sense is that anything good Labour do will be trashed as soon as the greedy, venal, self-serving right get into power, at the behest of their brainless, heartless supporters.

I remember listening to his pitch at the 2015 leadership hustings and being distinctly underwhelmed, Yvette Cooper ran rings around him. Finally getting the job via backroom deals rather than persuading the membership is so Old Labour that you can practically smell the Embassy Regal and pints of mild.

What he said about Europe was that Brexit has not been a success and that between now and the next election there need to be serious conversations about options for the UK's relationship with the EU, in preparation for Labour's next manifesto. That is a measured, nuanced message message, unlike your shouting about betrayal. He has not said 'I am going to take us back into the EU, this Parliament, with no general election and no referendum (which couldn't be achieved in less than three years anyway).

The polling is showing a small majority for rejoining, including amongst 'out' voters. Those people could quite legitimately look at uncontrolled immigration in dinghies, the c.4% shrinkage in the economy since we left, the administrative burdens of living, studying or working in EU countries, and the rigmarole involved in trading with EU countries and shout 'betrayal'.

The UK economy hasn’t shrunk by 4% since leaving the EU. That figure comes from an estimation by some economists of how much more our economy would have grown relative to the current position (or the date of analysis) had we not left the EU. As it is, our sluggish growth rate has slightly outpaced that of the largest EU economies, Germany and France, since the Brexit vote.

I should have checked that point before posting as I knew I wasn't on solid ground. Thank-you 😊

I'm glad you said that, because I also find his approach to the E.U sensible. I don't really see it as a U-turn - or at odds with what he said when he was campaigning in Makerfield. It's no secret he personally wants to see the U.K back in the E.U in his lifetime - he wrote it down in his book, and I don't think he's ever denied it. What he said in Makerfield was he wasn't campaigning to re-join right now and he still isn't. I don't think people in Makerfield or in the red wall in general are as blinkered and black in white in their thinking as Nigel Farage seems to think. If a policy is damaging the economy, talking about how and why we change that shouldn't be off the table forever.

Although, personally, as to whether re-joining is the right thing, I'm very on the fence about that, given the political turmoil in Europe - but I like the fact that the Prime Minister is pragmatic and serious, and not afraid to speak the word, 'brexit'.

The way he is approaching this is consistent with how he has said he wants to do politics - openness, not mud-slinging, working cross-party, being prepared to confront difficult issues. Starmer and the Conservatives have put Europe on the 'too difficult' pile. Burnham is right that we need to face up to it.

I reluctantly voted remain (I have an inherent distrust of large public entities) and would be cautious about rejoining because of what could easily be a sharp rightwards shift. Options that give us primarily economic benefits would get my vote.

If it was ‘no secret’ why head into a by-election with this

Burnham said: ‘My view is that Brexit has been damaging, but I also believe the last thing we should do right now is re-run those arguments.’

He added: ‘I am not proposing that the UK considers rejoining the EU.

‘I respect the decision that was made at the referendum and it is going to undermine everything I have said about strengthening democracy if we don’t respect that vote.’

Perhaps as PM he has been briefed in more detail on the economic impact, and realised just how damaging Brexit has been. It's entirely plausible that he might have realised since taking office that we can't afford to wait.

The way he is approaching this is consistent with how he has said he wants to do politics - openness, not mud-slinging, working cross-party, being prepared to confront difficult issues. Starmer and the Conservatives have put Europe on the 'too difficult' pile. Burnham is right that we need to face up to it.

Agree.

I reluctantly voted remain (I have an inherent distrust of large public entities) and would be cautious about rejoining because of what could easily be a sharp rightwards shift. Options that give us primarily economic benefits would get my vote.

Ooh, now what would we call that? How about "The Common Market" that none of us would have voted to leave ......

Exactly. The phrase used at the time of the Maastricht treaty, 'an ever closer union' made my heart sink. Macron a while ago floated the idea of a tiered EU, with nations choosing how closely bound they wanted to be to others. It sounded promising.

What is he going to do to give us a better Britain? Speeches mean nothing. I couldn't care less if he has compassion for people. I personally want to know that people are not going to be homeless and freezing through this winter. That people of all ages can put their heating on without worrying about it.

I live in Scotland and there are things the Scottish government that have done that has helped save me money. But I'm still poor. I've been living below the line for a long time. I don't care how compassionate Burnham seems to be. I want to know how he's going to make peoples lives better. I personally don't buy it where he's concerned I'm afraid.

What exactly would you like him to do to help you through this winter? Genuine question. What do you think would be possible that isn't being implemented at present?

We are growing as much as any country in the EU.
Why haven’t the EU countries zoomed ahead by this mythical 4%?

it was the iceberg of the Tories that did the damage. It’s more like towing the ship into harbour to mend the hole, and it will take time.

Also if he always knew what he wanted as the pp said why say the opposite at a by-election. I doubt what he knows now is much new to him anyway.

Plus agree re France, Germany etc growth and issues.

Perhaps put up the rate of UC slightly. I don't automatically qualify for warm home discount if that's what you are referring to.

"But apparently all will be well because the p.m. cries a few crocodile tears."

Wow. His dad died a week ago and you think he's faking sadness. @ThePelican shame on you.

Was it wise to change the captain in this situation?

The 4% was never a prediction that EU countries would grow 4% faster than us. It is an estimate that of how much less productive our economy is now than it would otherwise have been. We can match another country’s growth and still be poorer than we would have been without Brexit. Their own economic problems don’t cancel out the costs of ours.

He is a fairly good speaker, but just listen to the content! Performative claptrap..... he has no idea about how to introduce any sensible policies.
He might be a nice chap, but that's not enough, quite honestly.

re: the 4% (or 8%), it depends how much you trust economic projections. IME they are usually shit.

I do totally understand the anxiety if you're not sure how you're going to make ends meet over the winter period, and for what it's worth, I would happily pay a bit more tax so that people on low incomes could get a bit more help when they need it. But politically, I think it would be incredibly difficult for the government to increase the benefits bill at a time when money is so tight and there is so much political pressure on them to cut welfare spending. It would be good if they could find ways of increasing access to the warm homes discount for those who need it... but they would no doubt be hammered for doing so.

In the absence of extra government help, are there fuel vouchers etc that you could potentially access?

So what's your own analysis then, and what evidence have you based it on?

If we are to rejoin the EU, I’d like to first see their animal welfare standards brought up to ours and I’d prefer to see how far and for how long the Germans and French move to the right. Due to the latter, I think I’d rather we sat things out for a while.