To be glad triple lock going and hope they means test it too

[Randomamsi]

I have a multi millionaire senior relative who receives £1,400 from the state pension each month, in addition to 6k private pension.

He's not means tested and he's received that for 30 years. Yes, he paid into the system but he does not need it!!! He also had free uni, dirt cheap first house back in the 60s and retired aged 59.

Meanwhile the younger generation:

• thousands in student loan debt
• asset poor as can't get on the housing ladder
• means tested for child benefit, tax free childcare etc
• working until late 60s/ 70s

Why do pensioners have it easy while younger ones pay the price?

For vulnerable pensioners at risk of poverty, there should obviously be provision to help them, I'm not suggesting we let people starve. But multimillionaire pensioners or very asset rich pensioners do NOT need the state pension. It's about time things changed.

State pensions are benefits and the largest single welfare benefit.

Agree

Not just the "younger generation " who have to work until their late 60s. I am 65 and not due to retire until 67. When I started work I was due to retire at 60. Then retirement age was equalised with men, which is fair I suppose 😁but then it was oh just carry on for a couple more years.
I have been working since 14, started paying tax at 18 and long since completed my NI contributions. I have NEVER voluntarily left a job without one to go to, and had only short periods of unemployment after redundancy.
Please don't lump all older pensioners together, it's looking more and more likely that I will not be able to afford to retire even at 67.

For that you need higher taxes

Presumably the 3.6k is after tax so would put the OPs salary in the mid 50s so quite possible a bonus would see her reach 60k. Maybe use your brain before you accuse ppl of fake news - most ppl report monthly salary post tax

Thank you! £1600 a month = £323 a week, where statutory pension is £240

I doubt I’ll get a state pension when I retire, but what do you actually think will happen to vulnerable pensioners? They aren’t going to be left out in the cold.

I know and couple of young families who spend every Christmas and New Year in New York. I'm not daft enough to think all young families are the same.

Fine to lose the triple lock. They should increase the number of pensioners entitled to pension credit and tax back the pension from the people who are millionaires.

It's because of SERPS, @BorgQueen explained upthread, my dad had that. When he died, I found his pension statements from DWP and there was a long list of different elements of State Pension, whereas I'm sure mine is just one amount as it's after 2016

Fair enough!

Have you not heard of SERPS? The old state pension is not a fixed amount. My dad gets approx £17k per year.

The devil will be in the detail - that's why the triple lock will be the first to go, as it has already for Brits in some places overseas, fully-paid up NI or no.
Possibly stop paying pensions to those overseas?

I'm in Australia, where the state pension has always been means tested. There's been a superannuation scheme paid for by employees and employers for some time and it's doing well, so much so that it's anticipated that the 40% who currently draw the full state pension will fall to 15% by 2062. There will still be lots who claim a part-pension.

However.

If you sell up to downsize, you know, that thing the fucking greedy Boomers are exhorted to do, the profit will come out of your state pension because it's income. Oh, and you have to declare all assets when claiming the SP - paintings, car, jewellery, etc. not just income.

A means-tested SP is always vulnerable to being made harder to get, too. This has happened in Australia.

I'm not sure how the UK government could handle this - a long build-up makes sense, but when did any government think this way?

Changing the goal posts is the bit I don't like. There will be people who are planning their personal pension savings assuming they will have a state pension too - what if they fail the means test? Just enough to fail the means test, not enough for a comfortable retirement.

I paid to top-up my national insurance contributions for some partial years - What if the state pension becomes means tested and I don't qualify? Can I have that money back?

What possibly makes more sense is to not increase the state pension with inflation, so it's worth less and less each year and instead top it up with a means tested pension credit component, that allows people to have a "subsistence" standard of living (similar to what pension credit provides now). Make this plan known so people who are able to can adjust their pension savings.

I doubt this would tangibly reduce working people's tax bills, but it might feel fairer. Although I'm sure we'd then get people criticising pensioners on benefits.

And he will be taxed on it if he has £6k income so it is means tested in regards to paying tax

I don't think that's true . A person has to pay 35 years worth of NI to qualify for state pension . It doesn't matter if they are on minimal wage or a high earner just that they have the qualifying years .
35 years paid in = full state pension .
I put this question into Chat gp and got the answer I was expecting .

A multimillionaire could potentially receive a State Pension of £241.30 per week if they have 35 qualifying years of National Insurance contributions.

Some people have managed to receive pensions far higher than either the old “basic” or post-2016 state pension. An, admittedly tiny, handful of pensioners receive more than £45,000 a year.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/pensions/tax-retirement/how-get-maximum-state-pension-payment/

If this is to help with the cost of social care in England, what about Wales and NI, where people have to pay for care? Do they lose the triple lock too?

Pensions in the UK are not particularly generous.

The above graphic includes both the state and private pensions. 👆

Using a tax calculator, treating it as income, paying tax but not National Insurance:-

Working it out on an income, before tax of £7,400 a month, they could be paying £1,913 tax per month.
Working it out on an income, after tax of £7,400 a month, they could be paying £3,964 tax per month.

Both cases they are paying more tax than they are getting in pension and that's only counting income tax, not any other tax they pay when they spend it.

Exactly. It's interesting because a pension pot of 1 million gives around £40k annually: what if that needs to support two people? Suddenly "being a millionaire" doesn't sound that luxurious (obviously it's more than enough to survive on).

Your multimillionaire relative shows you his bank statements? Ok then!

I think we need to change the narrative about 'working all their life' when many retired at 50 , 55 or 60 tops, and paid their mortgages off way before , a luxury that most working adults will not have.

Happy to scrap triple lock - it is fundamentally unaffordable. Means testing pensions likely a bad idea, though - would drive all kinds of unintended consequences and ultimately likely to cost more than it saves.

the idea that any savings would fund a national care service is appalling - who wants to saddle the country with another nhs?