To take ds out of school he hates?

[SillyHammer]

I don’t really know where else to ask this tbh. My DS is 12 and has just started year 7 and I am starting to think we have a much bigger problem than I realised.

He has had a really rough time health wise since he was little. He was born with kidney problems and things got worse and worse as he got older. Covid came when he was in reception and obviously that was a weird time for everyone but for him it was when his health really started going downhill. He ended up having very long stays in hospital, needed a transplant and was really really poorly at one point. He had sepsis as well and his heart was affected when he was so ill. He also has epilepsy. He has had his transplant now and thankfully is much more stable than he was, although we still have hospital appointments etc.

The problem is he missed loads of primary school. I mean loads. There were times he was in hospital for weeks and then he’d be home recovering and then back in again. We did what we could with school work but honestly when your child is that ill school isn’t really the first thing you’re thinking about. His primary were very good and always said he was doing well considering everything, so I don’t think I ever really took in just how much he’d missed.

Now he’s started year 7 and it’s like it’s all caught up with him at once. He hates school. At first I thought it was just him settling in but he’s started bunking off lessons with the other lads. He walks around the corridors instead of going to class, hangs around with older boys and there have been days where he hasn’t gone in at all. His attendance is 78% already and a lot of that is because he is actually bunking off with the other lads rather than being ill.

School have obviously noticed and we’ve had calls and meetings and he’s had detentions and other consequences. They know all about his medical history and the amount of school he’s missed. They have said they’ll monitor how behind he is but have actually offered him a tutor to help him catch up but he won’t engage with it. He doesn’t want to stay after school either and just says he wants to go home. I’ve tried explaining that the extra help is there because he’s missed so much but he just gets angry and says he doesn’t need it.

He’s changed at home as well. He used to be quite an easy going kid considering everything he’s been through. Now he comes home late and if I ask where he’s been he’ll swear at me or tell me to fuck off. He slams his door, refuses to do homework and keeps saying he’s not going back the next day. Sometimes he’s lovely and you can see he’s still my little boy underneath it all, then something sets him off and he’s horrible.

I honestly don’t know if this is just 12 year old behaviour mixed with starting secondary school or whether we’ve got a child who has basically fallen so far behind that he can’t cope with what’s being asked of him.

I’ve started wondering about home education and I don’t know if I’m being completely ridiculous. Part of me thinks take him out before his attendance gets even worse, let him calm down, work out exactly what he can and can’t do and let him learn at his own pace.

But then another part of me thinks taking him out when he’s already refusing school and bunking off is the worst possible thing I could do. What happens when he decides he doesn’t want to do the home education either? I’d be left trying to teach a 12 year old who has missed loads of primary education and is already very angry with me. And I’m on my own with him so it’s not like I can tag team it with someone else.

I don’t want him to spend the next few years getting detentions and being labelled as badly behaved when really there’s a massive gap underneath it all. But I also don’t want to make things worse by taking him out.

I’m honestly completely stuck with this.

So go back to them, ask what else they can do, and look at other schools too. Be the squeaky wheel. Schools have a lot of children with higher needs now but there is more help available for those who need it most than they hand out at first time of asking.

Removing him feels like the line of least resistance at the moment but you could quickly end up very isolated with very little help, and a teen who gets increasingly uncooperative as he goes through puberty. What will you do if he just says no to learning at home?

Home ed can work really well but you don't have endless time and money to throw at this so you need to make the most of all the resources you have, including school.

If you get to the point where he has missed 15 days of school or it becomes clear that he will, you can use Section 19 of the Education Act 1996 to force school to provide some education that he is able to access. It makes a big difference if he is branded truanting/being uncooperative Vs feeling unable to attend.

But I think your son's circumstances are very unusual and from the schools I know (having moved a child myself) some would be SO much better than others at engaging him.

Happy kids don't do that though.

OP, I think it's likely he hanging out with that crowd because by behaving like this he can hide how far behind he is and how difficult that is for him.

My friends DC went off the rails a bit, he's severely dyslexic and struggled in all subjects as a result. It got to the point he was so angry with the world that they were worried they would lose him to his mental health. They pulled him out and homeschooled in year 11, after it spiralled with the GCSE pressure. They wish they'd done it much sooner.

He got an apprenticeship the following year, along side key skills at college and is absolutely thriving. While all his friends are racking up uni debts he is saving hard for a house deposit and, because he's only doing the academic subjects he will need to one day be self employed, he is much more willing and able not to give up, and to accept help.
Mainstream education isn't the only way, and sometimes isn't the right way.

I would speak the school and get a picture of how far behind he is.

Can they offer tutoring during school hours? If he's behind and has additional needs it may be too exhausting for him doing tutoring after school.

Is there another secondary school locally you could try instead of home ed? With your relationship as it is I wouldn't recommend it. It sounds like he's fallen in with a bad bunch and it will be hard to come back from. Moving to a new school and different kids could give him a fresh start. OR be a warning if he doesn't buck his ideas up!

If his behaviour gets much worse you may not be able to move him, just to warn you.

Does he have a phone / social media? If yes I'd take that off him immediately.

School have said they cant do anything else if he won’t engage, in tutor time in the morning he’s part of a group for social skills as obviously he also missed the social side of school (and life in general, he did socialise with other kids in hospital when he was “well” but it wasnt the same) I think the other kids have autism etc but they all plays board games but ds hates that aswell although because its in school time its non negotiable really

The other schools in our area aren’t good, his school isn’t good but the others are worse

Hmmm you may need to go higher up the chain, complain and ask for more support. There must be more they can do. If he won’t engage they need to try other ways to engage him. And he really really needs mental health support. Is he still under a consultant following his illness? I’d be calling his team and seeing if the hospital can provide any support. They may be able to get him into outpatients psychology due to the ongoing impact from his illness.

I will reiterate again I don’t think homeschool is a good idea. It’ll be a massive battle with him and may damage your relationship further. Also you’re just not going to be able to tailor a plan for him as detailed as you need. That’s not a criticism, I’ve got a masters and some teaching qualifications and wouldn’t even know where to start!

Also, as I said before I completely empathise with having a child who won’t or can’t engage in school, and the constant meetings and fighting for everything. Been there, still there, yes the instinct is to just pull him out and to hell with it but I don’t think it’s a good idea long term, for your child or mine!

First things first: I would contact his former consultant or their secretary and tell them he is struggling. Ask if they might be able to refer him to their pediatric psychosocial team if they have one. My daughter had a series of sessions after her diagnosis and they really helped.

You would also possibly be entitled to look at things like Over the Wall camp which is a free Summer camp for teens with health conditions. It's great for self esteem, meeting other kids who are dealing with thoughts about lifespan they shouldn't have to deal with, etc, and it's a really joyful place.

In terms of school, they are ducking their responsibility saying he won't engage so they can't monitor. He is showing signs of EBSA (emotional barriers to school attendance) as he is avoiding lessons. Your local authority may have an EBSA policy you can download and read. Internal truanting counts as EBSA. He is showing by his behaviour that he isn't coping, so school should be prioritising working out what the barriers are. Offering tuition outside of school time is not awful, but given that they can't get him attending during school time it seems odd to expect him to join something that extends his hours in school. I would be really pushing for an ed psych assessment.

Tbh I think you could work part time around home schooling. It's not ideal of course, but being a single parent to a school-refusing medically complicated teen with trauma-based behavioural issues isn't ideal is it? You're doing your best. That's all you can do. If you need to work around the homeschooling, then do so.

There are some Mumsnet posters who can't get their head around doing your best with what you've got. Ignore them.

I wonder whether it's worth keeping him at home due to his physical/mental health and seeing what the school can offer in terms of sending work home. This might be a compromise before completely deregistering him. Or not. But worth a try maybe.

She means would you have time ? They still have to be supervised. Also if you’re not able to teach to GCSE level I think you have to pay for online schooling , then he’d need extra curricular clubs etc for socialising. Maybe a change to get him away from the bad crowd , unless he’d seek out the bad crowd again?
He must be so frustrated he can’t keep
up so he’s acting up.

Is he your only child @SillyHammer ?

Ask the school if there’s another one they’d recommend, A friend’s son completely failed to cope with our local massive comprehensive and missed the last 2 terms of year 7. She got him in to a much smaller comprehensive locally (where he knew some others from primary school) and he is thriving. I’m so happy for her as it was awful when he was refusing to go to school.
Unless you are extraordinarily bright and well-educated I think home educating at secondary level would be very hard.

@SillyHammer did your son do his SATS at the end of year 6? If he did and passed then he’s hasn’t fallen behind. If he failed, then yes, secondary school may be too difficult for him so he’s avoiding it.

You really need to try and get him to work with the Tutor. Explain to him they will help get him to where he should be and that him being currently behind (if this is the case) is no fault of his own - up until this point of his life at least.

The school is offering him tutoring but he doesn’t want to do it.
So… this is when you need to step in. You arrive at school on the days he has the tutoring. You say that he either goes in alone or you will frog march him there. You wait for him in school reception.

Yes the school need to be more proactive. But there is a lot YOU can do before withdrawing him from the system (which sounds like a recipe for disaster)

What is your point?

You asked about cutting hours, the OP answered.

Potentially the other kids in that group are difficult company, there will be many issues causing people to need this type of support.

Your DS has had a very frightening time and lots of disruption, he might be helped by therapy.

It should not actually be possible for him to be wandering school with older pupils during lessons, I would be a bit worried that school isn't safe. His safety comes first, then health, then education - if he isn't safe in school, then that needs sorting out before anything else.

Have you written your concerns down and sent them to a member of senior leadership?

I'd explore the option of changing school.

I know you said the others aren't good, but maybe a different one would be a better fit for him? He's already got off onto such a bad start at this school, already gotten into the wrong crowd, would a fresh start with a clear plan from the off help?

If changing schools could be an option, I'd have a discussion with a potential school and ask what their support would look like.

I'd then take ds out for tea and put the options of staying in current school, changing with a clear plan or homeschool (which would be my least preferred option) to him. Personally, I'd want him far away from some of the friends he has made but maybe he feels completely stuck currently and can't get himself out of it.

He’s struggling big time and his way of coping is to try and push back rebel, he’s a long way of having the maturity to figure out the longer term consequences of that whether you tell him or not.

In your circumstance I would absolutely take him out of school and then figure it out from there, it doesn’t necessarily mean he won’t go back into school at some point, anything can change but in my opinion nothing is worth your child’s MH and safety, you know that already as you sound like a great mum, you just wanted some reassurance. Listen to your gut and be brave OP, you know your kid better than anyone, especially a bunch of strangers on here who might tell you otherwise x

And if he refuses to be frog marched to the tutoring sessions? If he runs away? This is a kid who is already really struggling in school, and likely struggling socially, I feel like turning up at school will alienate op from him even further.

We, as adults know he needs to engage in the tutor sessions. Him as a 12/13 year old would likely rather do anything else at the moment and I don't think trying to physically force him there is the answer. I fear it would escalate things further

Then if he flat out refuses to do this for his mother, to even try what the school is offering for him, then home schooling is likely to be an unmitigated failure. There is nothing to suggest he has any respect for the OP so how’s educating him going to work?

He needs to be assessed and support implemented. The OP is not going to be able to do that at home

Please do. For the sake of the staff.

The first thing that jumps out at me is the Primary have been really rubbish telling you he was doing OK when he wasn't, and didn't give the secondary decent handover. Now this school haven't really suggested anything themselves. You can address your son's behaviour, but the school really need to be dealing with the bad peer group and educating him at a level that will build his confidence as these are things that are in their control, so the ball needs to be in their court with this, not yours. Don't take on the education yourself, this isn't fair. You need to see a SENCO about MH issues and him being behind academically. Is he in a high support class?

I would approach the school and come from a perspective of working together to solve the problem. Many schools are happy for parents to home educate and take the problem away, but it isn't in the child's best interest. You need to work together to make this right.

Jesus, have you even read what the child has been through? They aren't at school to give the staff an easy life. You want to write this kid off already because theyve had a rough few weeks. Grow up.

No way would I pull him out of the system at this point. I understand his past struggles and your concerns now, but you don’t have the solution to such complicated issues and if you take him off roll, it’s all on you. I’d be less worried about the academics now than this crowd he’s fallen in with and the attitude shift. You’ve already lost his respect and control so without any other authority in the frame, he’d be free to tell you to fuck off and go out getting into much worse trouble with no structure or prospects. I’d already be scared about worst case scenarios. Honestly if I could I’d be looking at moving away for a fresh start, but I know that’s probably not possible so staying in the system and working with the school, camhs, gp and any therapy you can get, paid for if needs be. Even if he ends up in a pru, they’ll do more for him than you’re able to based on your responses here.

Home educating through KS3&4 is a huge task for anyone without money or experience to throw at it and without much of a strategy behind it. This isn’t casting aspersions on your capability or care for your DS. Just being realistic based on how he’s already treating you. He needs more help not less. I’d use your time/energy/£ to fight like hell to get it from the system not let them off the hook and have no one to turn to when he refuses you too and heads out with his mates god knows where.

Op, he lacks the basic knowledge and will never be able to build on if left at secondary to catch up on his own. That makes him feel incompetent and angry. The only option he sees is joining the wrong crowd, as he thinks he must be like them…

Yes. Take him out of school. Start from the basics at home. Protect his feelings of self worth and belonging. Show him you’re there for him.

Move school or start educating him as a primary student. There is another thread very similar to this only now the boy is 17, he’s in prison, his DM’s partner won’t watch their toddler so she can visit her DS.
If she could go back in time and remove him as he started in this sloppy road. It is an act of defiance to hide what he is lacking in education, please start from scratch with education.
This is the start of life changing decisions.