To take ds out of school he hates?

[SillyHammer]

I don’t really know where else to ask this tbh. My DS is 12 and has just started year 7 and I am starting to think we have a much bigger problem than I realised.

He has had a really rough time health wise since he was little. He was born with kidney problems and things got worse and worse as he got older. Covid came when he was in reception and obviously that was a weird time for everyone but for him it was when his health really started going downhill. He ended up having very long stays in hospital, needed a transplant and was really really poorly at one point. He had sepsis as well and his heart was affected when he was so ill. He also has epilepsy. He has had his transplant now and thankfully is much more stable than he was, although we still have hospital appointments etc.

The problem is he missed loads of primary school. I mean loads. There were times he was in hospital for weeks and then he’d be home recovering and then back in again. We did what we could with school work but honestly when your child is that ill school isn’t really the first thing you’re thinking about. His primary were very good and always said he was doing well considering everything, so I don’t think I ever really took in just how much he’d missed.

Now he’s started year 7 and it’s like it’s all caught up with him at once. He hates school. At first I thought it was just him settling in but he’s started bunking off lessons with the other lads. He walks around the corridors instead of going to class, hangs around with older boys and there have been days where he hasn’t gone in at all. His attendance is 78% already and a lot of that is because he is actually bunking off with the other lads rather than being ill.

School have obviously noticed and we’ve had calls and meetings and he’s had detentions and other consequences. They know all about his medical history and the amount of school he’s missed. They have said they’ll monitor how behind he is but have actually offered him a tutor to help him catch up but he won’t engage with it. He doesn’t want to stay after school either and just says he wants to go home. I’ve tried explaining that the extra help is there because he’s missed so much but he just gets angry and says he doesn’t need it.

He’s changed at home as well. He used to be quite an easy going kid considering everything he’s been through. Now he comes home late and if I ask where he’s been he’ll swear at me or tell me to fuck off. He slams his door, refuses to do homework and keeps saying he’s not going back the next day. Sometimes he’s lovely and you can see he’s still my little boy underneath it all, then something sets him off and he’s horrible.

I honestly don’t know if this is just 12 year old behaviour mixed with starting secondary school or whether we’ve got a child who has basically fallen so far behind that he can’t cope with what’s being asked of him.

I’ve started wondering about home education and I don’t know if I’m being completely ridiculous. Part of me thinks take him out before his attendance gets even worse, let him calm down, work out exactly what he can and can’t do and let him learn at his own pace.

But then another part of me thinks taking him out when he’s already refusing school and bunking off is the worst possible thing I could do. What happens when he decides he doesn’t want to do the home education either? I’d be left trying to teach a 12 year old who has missed loads of primary education and is already very angry with me. And I’m on my own with him so it’s not like I can tag team it with someone else.

I don’t want him to spend the next few years getting detentions and being labelled as badly behaved when really there’s a massive gap underneath it all. But I also don’t want to make things worse by taking him out.

I’m honestly completely stuck with this.

What is your point then?

That you will lose money if you home educate

whereas if you carry on earning, you will have money that you may be able to channel towards therapy for him.

Atm - I would say behaviour needs to be addressed first and foremost - and then education

What is your level of education?

Do you think you can educate?

I didn’t know you knew exactly what my finances were and that If i continued working i’d be able to afford therapy

Talk to school, and look at other schools. Ours has a nurture group which is specifically for children who are not really ready to move on from primary curriculum. They have part of their timetable in a smaller environment catching up on gaps, gaining confidence from succeeding when the mainstream secondary environment sometimes makes them feel like they are failing. Ours is quite new, it was a response to post COVID more children coming through in need of this support.

There can be all sorts of things quietly happening in schools to give extra support that most parents never even get to hear about. Talk to them, don't sack off school quite yet.

Yes.

Sigh

ok Op I’ll leave you to it

You don’t need lots of money to home Ed, a secure environment with an invested care giver, I would prioritise his mental health and your relationship for now, academics can come after that, but the damage done from making the wrong choices and friends now can be a lot harder to undo.

you need to ask yourself 3 questions.

1. can you afford to cut your hours to home educate?
2. would he actually listen to you?
3. can you teach him what he needs to learn?

If online school / tutors isn’t an option then you do seriously need to ask yourself question 3. It’s absolutely not a criticism. It’s the reality when you’re not a qualified teacher.

I know you’re concerned about labelled as badly behaved but sometimes these things do trigger additional support. Keep pushing the school, maybe consider a different school but don’t go into home schooling without seriously considering the potential for being in a worse position than you already are.

ÒP, he sounds as though he’s got in with a bad crowd. I’d be looking at changing schools if it’s remotely possible, before he goes completely off the rails. And speak to him - see if you can find out what’s going on. Many a badly behaved DC would rather be seen as “naughty” than shown up for not understanding or being behind in class. You’ve got to get to the bottom of what is causing this behaviour. As for swearing at at you, there has to be some sanction, whether loss of privileges (games console/phone) or docked pocket money (but if the latter, give him a chance to earn it back).

Hi op. All sounds very tough. I was going to suggest similar to @NuffSaidSam

Home educating is really not for the daint hearted and incredibly hard work. If he has an attitude with you already it will only get work with home education.

It sounds to me like you've made a link between his behaviour and him being behind with schoolwork that isn't necessarily there.

He's behaving very badly but not because he's noy getting the support - just because he behaving extremely badly, has fallen in with the wrong crowd, and it needs to be firmly addressed.

That's a very tall order in itself and there's no easy path but I wish you the best.

OP, I am so sorry he is in this position and you are navigating this. I'm not confident he would engage with home learning. What are school suggesting? Our local state secondary would be calling you in for a meeting. I'd be asking for an Educational Psychologist assessment to identify learning needs and with his background, he definitely needs an educational plan. I am surprised his primary didn't get this in place before transition. Our school has an open referral system to school nursing team who offer some very practical support with emotional and social needs. I think you need a meeting with the ALN co-ordinator as soon as possible to put together a plan. They should be inviting you in but if not, you go to them. I think his case is complex so you need some additional help.

Secondary school can feel like a big step up but he won't be the only person not coping and support should be available. Even if he did a planned reduced timetable you would be better off. Hanging around not in lessons is not leading anywhere good, and the school should be actively managing that. Has he made any positive relationships with adults in school? A tutor maybe? What subjects will he attend? Might be good to talk to him about this before you meet with the school. Does he have friends? Hobbies? Interests? Might he give scouts a go? If he feels he isn't achieving at school it might be good if he had other places to feel he belongs.

I think home schooling without support would be very hard at this stage. He will need careful assessment preferably without him noticing to identify gaps in his knowledge against what he should know. Then he really needs a specially tailored programme to accelerate his learning with the aim of him catching up with his peers.

It’s not really the point about whether I can afford to cut my hours, ds’s happiness is more important and he isn’t happy and if he doesn’t learn anything now then the gap will get bigger as the years go on or he’ll just start school refusing

Home educating is HARD, especially if done properly.

It should be suitable for the child's age and aptitude, and should always strive to push, but it's easy to fall into complacency.

You have to consider what curriculum your child can manage, arrange syllabuses - you can buy these but they can be eyewateringly expensive even for untailored or semi-tailored teaching and learning styles. You have to consider the social aspect as humans are social creatures, it is just a fact. That can mean homeschooling groups or sports clubs or any other activity that usually also requires a lot of money being sunk into it. In theory you can do it for free, but at 12 your child isn't going to be happy milling around a park or a forest and interacting with people, and it's as much about supporting physical health and development as it is an education.

Your child has to be motivated. If they lose motivation, it isn't a them problem, it's a you problem and there's nobody else that can take accountability for that.

You need to consider your own stability as well. You would have to cut your hours at work, fine. You may manage. What if you were unable to find any work at all and you had to look for a different job? One with less flexibility? We're all one accident, one sacking, one redundancy away from the breadline. What then? How can you futureproof your homeschooling arrangement so that your child is set up for success?

Then it's how would you teach? Do you think your child can learn what they need out of the house, in the house, at a computer? Will they get distracted? Can they commit to doing so many hours a day with structure and discipline without peer support?

What sort of qualifications will they aim towards and how do you plan on making that happen?

Really OP I think your best bet is to keep him in school, see if there's any pastoral team that can support him and supplement at home with catch up material. If you can't get him to do any additional supplementary work for even half an hour after school I think homeschooling is unrealistic.

Ok, well I'm a teacher of GCSE and A level with 30 years experience behind me, and I don't think I could successfully home educate a 12 year old who has missed a lot of primary school.

I certainly couldn't educate them to GCSE level in all subjects as there are areas where I'm not confident of my own level of ability.

Do you genuinely think he's going to end up with qualifications and the ability to move forward as an adult if you pull him out of school and educate him yourself? And do you genuinely think you can do it better than professionals? You appear to be struggling to manage his behaviour, so what does happen when he refuses to engage with lessons with you and tells you to 'fuck off'? You may well prioritise his current 'happiness' at the expense of his entire future and ability to earn a decent living.

I could not teach Maths or Science at GCSE for a start - it's not my area of expertise. I could teach History, English, French, German, Geography and RE without much concern and be confident that I was covering the subject well enough. But that's because I'm educated to Masters level, have a PGCE which trained me how to teach and have 30 years experience of teenagers and how to engage them. I have also marked for various exam boards for approximately 20 years so I know how the syllabus works, and how marks are awarded.

I still wouldn't want to teach one of my own kids. It's a completely different skill to manage your own child without them arguing back and refusing to engage.

It sounds as though he has had a really rough start to life. It's great that he is doing better physically. Unfortunately, it's not unusual for children who've dealt with serious illness to rebel in their teens (or late pre-teens). They can become angry at all they've missed out on and direct that anger and rebellion against their parents or others. Sometimes, as in this case, school also becomes a focal point for their emotions.

I agree with PPs that the first thing I'd look into would be some form of therapy. He needs to work through his emotions about being ill and how that has affected his childhood.

I wouldn't immediately pull him out of school. As long as the staff are supportive and offer strategies to help him, I'd give it longer to work through. It's only been a few weeks. Encourage him to work with the tutor, help him with homework at home (if he will accept your help), and maybe create situations that will support his learning, especially some of the areas he has fallen behind in, e.g. baking together and work out the measurements if he's struggling with maths.

I obviously wouldn’t be able to work but i’m missing time anyway with school meetings and appointments and if he engaged it would be worth it. GCSE curriculum is irrelevant, he’s only just started year 7 if i ignore things he will get further behind and fail anyway. His behaviour has coincided with starting secondary school.

School haven’t offered anything else bar after school tutoring and when i mentioned assessments to see how behind he is and what he’s struggling with they said they’d continue to monitor him but he’s not doing work or going to lessons so there’s nothing to monitor

He’s changed at home as well. He used to be quite an easy going kid considering everything he’s been through. Now he comes home late and if I ask where he’s been he’ll swear at me or tell me to fuck off. He slams his door, refuses to do homework

I honestly don’t see how you can think home education is suitable given he seems to have very little respect for you.

He needs help and withdrawing him for the school system is going to close that door. I’d be pushing for an assessment and extra support and trying to work with the school as much as possible

Have you accepted the offer of after school tutoring?

Obviously take this with a pinch of salt and I’m not for on second saying this is how your story will turn out but just to give my experience.

my brother had a similar story. Had cancer at 5 and pretty much missed the first 2 years of school, he was incredibly ill and prognosis was very uncertain. Similarly to you my parents didn’t know if their child would survive and understandably education was the last thing on their mind. Eventually he get better and returned to school hugely behind his peers, he struggled academically and never caught up. He became the class clown in his school because quite frankly his self esteem was so low because he just couldn’t keep up. Fell in with the wrong crowd and eventually was on drugs. My parents tried everything they could to help him but by then it was too late and he’s now approaching 40 and his life’s a mess. He’s been diagnosed with PtSD from cancer treatment and my parents now acknowledge that they did parent him differently because of his illness, they let a lot slide because he was sick and tbh it sounds like after everything he had been through they just didn’t want to give him into trouble. They bitterly regret how things have turned out and wish they had intervened earlier when things started to go downhill (start of secondary school).

if I was in your situation I wouldn’t put this down to normal teenage drama. He’s been through a huge trauma and probably still is struggling mentally from it and will be reminded every day when he’s struggling in school. Try and get him into sports or another hobby, something he can excel in. Get him some intense mental health support. Raise his self esteem and self worth. Do this now, don’t wait for train to come off the track.

Yes but he refuses to go to it because he just wants to go home at the end of the day

Meet him after school. And say he doesn’t have a choice. You wait in car to collect afterwards

I dont think home schooling is the answer. If a child is taken out of school to be home schooled and then comes back again because it hasnt worked then it is even harder. He really has been through it healthwise as of course have you but that should not be an excuse for his poor behaviour. I think you would benefit from some behaviour therapy/support. The school should be able to point you in the right direction.