Why do so many mums ditch their childfree friends?

[Sishirunak70]

Especially when those friends are accommodating, take an interest in your child/children and willing to work around you?
Why do you now only associate with other Mums and think that they 'just won't get it?'

Why do you let them disappear from your life since you became a mother? Whilst I understand it's hard, it's not impossible.
There are far too many martyrs around who believe they're the only person to have ever given birth, everything must now revolve around them and that nobody else can ever be tired or busy, except for them.

Of course but that may not always be the case, and people who aren't parents simply don't understand how often many parents do think about their children. Conversations are different with other parents and a lot of parents value those peer chats as a way to calm fears or find the joy in tough situations.

Most adults have a life outside of their kids but it will rarely come before their kids, particularly if they are young. It isn't about not "being able" to talk about other things, but about being relaxed enough to be able to in front of the person who you have chosen to spend your child-free time and not having to censor things because they might think "all she does is talk about her kids!".

When I had two under two I didn’t even have time to shower. You cannot be serious.

Yes I never wanted to discuss my kids with friends. Having given birth didn't define me as a person

You are being determinedly obtuse about this, but I'll keep answering.

The vast majority of my friends work 9-5 type office jobs, and a significant number of them live all around the country. They can't just pop around my house of an evening, if we want a few of us together, that means fitting in work, other friends, family commitments, holidays before we even get to childcare. Which is the only thing compared to the other things that needs to be accounted for 100% of the time, even if you aren't doing it directly yourself.

I've never diminished the needs of the childfree on this thread. I was running around in a pressured job and travelling the world before I had kids. But you are persistently pretending that young kids aren't a bigger commitment than other obligations because... Well, I don't know why.

A question for you - what in your life do you need to make sure is sorted 100% of the time? It doesn't matter of you do it yourself. It just has to be something that someone needs to physically present in the same building or outdoor space as 100% of the time?

No I'm merely saying that childcare is just one thing that needs to be sorted. And if you have a partner say in front of the telly then it's easy.

I've got 3 kids you know so I'm well aware how things work. Majority of the time with eldest 2i was a single parent with a fulltime job.

You not having local friends is a complete different issue

One thing that needs to be sorted 100% of the time.

Let's put it another way. Who has an easier staffing job? The manager of a nursery who needs to make sure that staff are at the nursery covering between 7am-7pm, or the care home manager who needs to ensure staff cover 24/7? The person who has a 9-5 office job vs the farmer in lambing season?

I was the last of my friends to have children, so I know what it's like to be the childfree friend fitting in with the parents. I'm not actually advocating that parents ditch their friends. But things shift when you have children, and pretending it is the same as a 40h a week job is just silly.

You are obviously hard of reading. When there is a parent sat indoors in front of the telly then the other parent can go out. Quite simple

How comes men don't seem to have the same issue?

My husband does have the same issue. He's just not on Mumsnet.

But please continue your weird crusade where you tell mums who also balance work, childcare, friends, family, exercising etc that the childcare element is in fact no problem, and that they are imagining it.

Okay but I think this is where childfree people and (some) planned parents are often fundamentally incompatible.

It feels very much like to people who always planned to be parents, friends were a way for you to fill your time and get some emotional support while you wait for children to arrive, and those friends can then be discarded once you get the kids you were waiting for.

But to people who are childfree, friends are people you fully plan to have in your life forever. I'm absolutely not looking at my current friends thinking "well, it's sad but true, friendship isn't forever", I'm looking at my friends thinking I hope we're still supporting each other in fifty years.

It's really hard when you realise you were just a placeholder and not an intended part of someone's life.

I don't think most people make an active decision though.

The friend I've least interest in meeting right now was my bridesmaid. She had a child first, and it sort of highlighted a few things about her character that I just couldn't be bothered with any more. Then I had a child and I realised just how incompatible we had become.

Neither of us were filling time, I just know that I'm not interested in using my more limited time and resources these days to have her boss us about for the weekend.

On the other hand, a friend I haven't seen much of for years is going to be my neighbour soon, and we're looking forwards to it.

Most people aren't strategically plotting out their friendships in the way you feel is happening.

So tell me how I managed to spend time with friends while also bringing up kids and working full time as a single parent but it's impossible for everyone else

@Deiji totally agree. If you are the type of person for who friends are like family then it can really hurt if they drop you once they have kids. It's been heartening to hear from some on this thread who get it and confirm they still value their friends and make time to see them.

Tell me too please I'd love to know why it's so different, impossible for some and doable for others.

You're trying to get me to make a point I have not once made on this thread. I have continued to see my friends - when I was the last one to have kids in the group I still see them when I have kids now.

At no point have I said it's impossible. I have said it's harder than before you have kids.

People are saying it's impossible for the ones with kids to see their friends. You are the other way round. And if you are the last one having kids then you aren't seeing child free friends with kids yourself

I had 3 under 2 and still had time to shower and have a social life. Everyone is different.

It’s not sure if you are child free it’s much fun hanging out with your mate who has just had a baby and or has a toddler. The talk is pretty dull and tends to be reasonably child focused, I can’t imagine anything more frustrating than meeting up with friends when they have their young children as the chance of finishing a conversation without being interrupted are precisely zero! I have child free friends, in the first few years we only sent the odd message, I freely admit I was as boring as watching paint dry, I didn’t have time to read, gave up listening to the radio as it just ended with me getting frustrated because of endless interruptions, and my work is confidential so couldn’t talk much about that either! My old friendships have all being picked up since my kids left primary school. Kids are teens and know not to interrupt my all important listening to the Archers! I also have time in the evening to read, and can now go out without needing a babysitter (dh works shifts). My child free friends never ditched me, nor I them, but we had a mutual understanding that our lives were temporarily traversing different paths for a finite amount of time.
If you value their friendship then pick up reins in a few years hence. Or let the friendships go, accept it’s a closed chapter in your life and step into a fresh new book. Don’t waste your energy feeling upset or resentful because that will only hurt you.

Absolutely this. Kids generally thrive on routine, especially very young ones

I was chatting to some Gen Xers today. We were expected to fit into our parents lives not the other way round. Our parents did little ‘child centred’ stuff. As such they seemed to keep up pre child relationships so much better. Including their child free friends
DH’s mum said they used to go to parties when he was tiny and shove him behind the sofa. I remember spending Saturday nights as a kid listening to my parents and friends chatting and drinking (and learned so much about humour, story telling and being social). Otherwise I was shipped off for sleepovers at a cousins. I think we’d term it ‘benevolent neglect’ now
Me and DH have 4 degrees between us, have very good incomes, have lived in 4 countries, are resilient, social and capable. I felt privileged to be invited into that fascinating adult world even though we were roundly ignored and not indulged or ‘talked about’
Our parents continue their great social lives.
The ‘whole mummy’ stuff is not necessarily the best thing for kids. It’s definitely not the best thing for adults.

Reminds me of when DD1 was 4 months old. Her and another couple of babies were asleep in their prams as the new year came in at a house party I was attending.

And yeah you have a valid.point about not running whole lives round kids.

But that might be a reflection of people having kids younger. As my 36yo friend put it, "I'm not giving up clubbing, I already have a National Trust membership."

My husband and I were established day drinkers well before we had a child - afternoon in the pub, early dinner out and pudding at home. Didn't have my son to almost 35, I hadn't been clubbing since 33.

Totally agree. Thanks for saying this.

But you're already using the appropriate qualifier "before I had children" whereas childless is and has pretty much always meant women who go their lives without children usually not by choice. There's a big difference between being someone describing their life in their 20s prior to children and someone describing a childless experience unless in the years before you had children you for some reason thought you couldn't ever have them.

It really doesn't matter whether I'm adding a qualifier to explain my individual circumstances though - it doesn't change the ordinary meaning of the word. The word childless means "without children." There's no requirement for it to be a whole-life state. I was childless before I had a child. Just like I was jobless before I got my job and I would be homeless if I found myself without a home.

This is pretty much a derail now, but people keep tagging me 🤣 please accept my "agree to disagree" flag, as I'm not going to change my mind and I doubt I'm going to change anyone else's 🤣

I hadn't seen other posters replied to you when I replied. I disagree though that it's ever used in the way you're describing it though. No one describes the millions of young people and teenagers as childless, most commonly people would say someone doesn't have kids yet. It's always been a way to describe people who are living a life without children (usually not by choice hence child free) and so someone who's had children can say they understand a childless existence because they "lived it", you were just young and hadn't had kids yet! Unless you genuinely hear people describe every kid at college and uni as childless it's not the ordinary meaning of the word.