Why do so many mums ditch their childfree friends?

[Sishirunak70]

Especially when those friends are accommodating, take an interest in your child/children and willing to work around you?
Why do you now only associate with other Mums and think that they 'just won't get it?'

Why do you let them disappear from your life since you became a mother? Whilst I understand it's hard, it's not impossible.
There are far too many martyrs around who believe they're the only person to have ever given birth, everything must now revolve around them and that nobody else can ever be tired or busy, except for them.

I was speaking about fathers who are living in the family unit with their kids not ones who have fucked off. For example if both parents are sitting indoors while the child sleeps why on earth CANT the mother go out and meet friends?

I don’t think it’s necessarily that mums just suddenly “ditch” their friends once they have children. Sometimes they genuinely do realise that their friends without children just don’t quite get it. And that’s not meant as a criticism because I didn’t get it either before I had kids.
The friends who are accommodating are obviously much easier to stay close to, but it’s often little things that make you realise how different life is now.
For example, say I’ve arranged to meet a friend for coffee and I’ve got the kids with me. I’ve probably spent ages getting everyone dressed, fed, getting everything together and timing it all so we’re there when we’re supposed to be. Then she messages to say she’s going to be 10 minutes late.
Pre-kids? Fine. I’d sit there, scroll on my phone and wait.
With 2 children? Those 10 minutes can feel like an eternity 😂 I’m not going to be happily sitting at the table waiting for her while the kids entertain themselves. I’ve got to keep them occupied, stop them wandering off, deal with whatever they’re asking for etc. And then by the time she actually arrives I’m already exhausted.
It’s the same with things like cancelling at the last minute or changing plans. Pre-kids you can just shrug and get on with it. Once you’ve got children, you’ve often organised feeds, naps, school runs, packed bags and everything else around that one plan. So something that seems like a tiny inconvenience to your friend can actually completely screw up your day.

I thought going by this thread that its mums with children who need the allowance to be late at they are so busy and stressed and tired? Surely its more likely to be a mum of 3 who is late or cancels a meet up rather than a single friend? Thats what most people on this thread seem to be saying anyway. 🤷‍♀️

I haven't 'repeatedly' said anything at all. You must be confusing me with someone else. I agree with you on free speech. I'm merely pointing out that you are, obviously, allowed to use language exactly as you see fit, Absolutely no one can stop you unless it's a hate speech situation or equivalent.

But words change their connotations over time ('gay' is no longer primarily a matter of cheeriness, so you talking about a gay man is likely to posit him as same-sex attracted rather than a happy soul for most people), or a group of people spearheads a change in usage, like 'black' or 'Black' being preferred over 'coloured', except for organisations like the NAACP for historical reasons.

The distinction between childless and childfree, and, I suppose, the coining of childfree, is similar.

I understand that words acquire connotations. That's not what I'm talking about.

You repeated twice that people were "just" pointing out that "childfree" has connotations. But that's not what I was talking about.

I was replying to this exact message, here:

"...one thing that bothers me is posts saying along the lines of I was childless/childfree until I had kids. No, you weren’t. And please try to understand why those terms are wrong.

In those circumstances, it’s pretty much that you hadn’t had kids yet.

Childless really relates to those who, for many reasons, are unable to have children."

I am not, and was not, talking about the difference in connotations between childless and child free.

I am talking about the idea that it is wrong to say I was childless before I had children.

This really. Things change as life moves on. It’s rarely a huge reflection of how we feel about a person just that lives and priorities and what we enjoy change.

But too, it’s impossible to really know what parenting is like until you experience it. My days at the moment with a child at nursery: wake up, partner and I rush about manically trying to get ourselves and our child ready for the day. Desperately try and get them to eat breakfast while dealing with hundreds of ‘why’ style questions and the odd melt down (hair/ not wanting to wear something/ wanting to take a toy to nursery…), scramble out the door (often bringing the remains of breakfast with us), mad nursery dash, then a panicked rush to get the train. Then work. Done mostly while exhausted and often while also battling some cold or something caught from nursery. Rush back for nursery pick up. One of us does play time while the other cooks, then eat. While child carries on eating (it takes several ages), we start to tidy the house - children have an amazing ability to create havoc in an incredibly short amount of time - and then bath and bed. Bed should start at 7 if not before but usually child still managing to eat. So everything is again a rush. One of us will do bed time while the other one continues to clean up, maybe put a load of washing on, prep lunches for the next day, etc. Depending on the exhaustion of child (the more tired the more manic child is and longer it takes) bed time can take from 20mins to up to 2 hours.
Downstairs. Say hello to partner as we probably didn’t really get a chance to acknowledge each other earlier. How was day? Crash in front of TV usually while also trying to catch up on work that we didn’t get done earlier. If child wasn’t asleep when we left bedroom there will usually be a couple of calls back to bedroom as they are in a state because teddy is being mean tonight or they can’t find that book that they really want and can’t describe in any way that would mean another person would know what they want.
Back downstairs to crash out. Stay a bit too late in front of telly as it’s easier not to move than to get up and go to bed. Possibly think about sex and how good it used to be, but by the time you start moving towards the bedroom, realise that you are completely broken and both fall into bed exhausted. Wait for sleep. Mind fills with all the life admin you again put off, and the worries about work and money and the state of the world. Lie there in state of mild terror for an hour or so, wishing you hadn’t given up alcohol and cigarettes (haven’t smoked in 15 years, but gosh at this moment the temptation is strong). Finally the body shuts down and you get a few hours sleep.
Repeat. Every day.

Children are wonderful and make it all worth it. But it takes everything.

Meeting up takes a huge effort. Even finding time and the mental energy to text people back is a pretty big ask. Phone calls almost an impossibility. And, often if I do meet up with child free friends I spend most of the time feeling incredibly guilty as I know they are here to catch up and all I seem be doing is having to deal with my child and any conversation we do have seems stilted as I can’t fully focus. Child free meet ups, now they are wonderful. But require planning.

And it’s not just the child free parents I see less of. I’ve several friends with children of similar ages and we all spend our time apologising to each other for rarely managing a meet up and rarely remembering to respond to each other’s texts. But none of us mind as we all understand.

You are better than me going to soft play! Pre-children me never went and lm not thrilled by it with children

Post-children a lot of people just don’t make the same amount of effort and expect others to do their share. Everyone in a friendship needs to make effort and you can’t cruise expecting the child free to pick it up. I say that as someone with twins who went back to work after 6 months and have little family support. Life is busy but l still make effort with friends

Can I ask what you think the difference is between someone like you who can manage and others who can't? Some say it's practically impossible and others like yourself say it's hard but can.

Pure rage-bait. Grow up.

Because then the mother doesn't get to play the martyr 😂

It's not that child free friends aren't important but they are certainly now much further down my priority list. My life is split into child time and child free time. It has to be a really good offer for me to want to spend my precious child free time on it. Being an unpaid counsellor or hearing someone talk about themselves for two hours is not a best use of my time when I have so much else I could have been doing. Sometimes you have to put yourself first, and that means people drop off your priority list.

Why is that just about child free friends though and not friends in general? Surely ANY friend that talks about themselves only for 2 hours isn’t great to be around? Or would a mum friend who talks about themselves or their child for 2 hours solidly be fine? Is it only the childfree that are bores?

Well, for one thing, timing?

Yes, the child is asleep and being cared for by another parent. But that doesn't mean that all the other people involved are free at the same time!

This is the point of mine that you're ignoring. A parent has to at the bare minimum schedule care for 100% of a child's time, whether that's with a partner, paid childcare, whatever.

I have a great 'village' as it happens, and my husband and I both cover for each other for social occasions (as well as gym, work etc). But we can't magic up our friends being available to the exact schedule were available - with or without kids.

Timing ? When the husband in IN THE HOUSE with the sleeping child. Come on tell me what's wrong with that timing?
And if you mean the child free person? Well according to many on here they can do what they like when they like.

There's zero difference if people actually have other plans to whether they can meet up or not. Nothing to do with being a parent.

If my friends (childfree or otherwise) are not available at the same time I have childcare available for my child, I can't see them. That is the timing.

I hope that's clear enough for you.

I find non parents self obsorbed
Dont get some parenting experiences and yea unless you are a parent you dont always get it.
Maybe she outgrown you...while you add it all up

With people who have children you usually spend time with children together, so it leaves your precious child free time for your to run errands or do something you love for yourself.

Perhaps you feel they aren’t as interested in your children as you are and that to you equals self absorbed.

Same as if friends have to be at work when you are free, or on holiday etc. what does that have to do with being a mother?

I do remember when my kids were small. If I had no childcare I'd often invite them over to mine once id bunged my child in bed an d we could chat then

So really once you become a mother your friends without children just become boring and not worth your precious free time because all they do is talk about themselves? Whereas your mum friends are useful as they provide you with company and play dates? Ok.

I am with you, OP.

It's a grieving process every time your friends have kids and you lose yet another friend. I wish I'd known when I was a teenager to sniff out people who would want to be childfree and befriend them instead. I never expected my friends who had children to prioritise me over their child, but I was shocked to find that they entirely forgot I existed.

Having close friends who love you like crazy in April and never speak to you again in May despite your best efforts to support them is incredibly rough.

Maintaining a friendship with a person who loves you and has supported you unconditionally for many years, giving you their time and money to make your life better and happier, should be "a great offer".

The fact that you don't think it is suggests that the friendship has always meant more to the other person than it does to you, which is what child free people find so upsetting.

Accommodating child free friends aren't as common as you'd imagine. Most make it very clear they don't want to talk about kids, which is very hard when your entire body has been rewired to care primarily about your offspring. It often means they aren't a source of information and the parent feels they are self- censoring trying not to relate anything back to their kids.

Even when they reach teens a group of mum friends might be discussing exam boards, coursework or how they are a taxi driver most weekends to try to get a sense of what is normal and when to detach for independence. It is all part of social cultural norms. You can't do this if the person opposite you has militantly declared they don't know why people keep bringing children into the world.

I know many parents who can go hours without talking about children... it's important and healthy for parents to maintain their own identity outside of their children.

Being unable to talk about anything but children is not a fact of parenthood, it's a choice made by some parents, not all.

The people who are genuinely good friends understand your life has shifted and accommodate that. And in return you make great efforts to keep up the friendship. I certainly did. But things change. People drift apart, people grow in different directions. Sometimes it happens. Usually it happens . And then it happens again when your children grow up. You need mutual interest and proximity and time to make a friendship work. Friendship isn't always forever, and what you put in doesn't guarantee you get a return. Sad but true. You have children and sometimes it just costs too much to keep up some things from before.