Where do you think Jewish people come from?

[BlessedIsTheFruit]

Antisemitism is at full volume at the moment and I caveat this post with saying that I have absolutely no wish to make Jewish MNers feel uncomfortable but as an an atheist with no connection to Israel this really makes my blood boil.

I see so many SM posts about the Jews having 'colonized' Israel and Judea & Samaria, not having any claim to the land, not being indigenous and of course being 'Europeans settlers'.

They can't answer where they actually come from though so I thought anyone on here who shares their views might be able to give an answer and how they came to that conclusion.

I understand that Jews are an ethnicity with Judaism as their religion. Being Jewish is not a religion. Jews are still today spread out all over the world with the majority living in Israel and the US.

This has come into focus since the UK Government sanctions on Jewish businesses in Judea & Samaria recently with Jewish communities living there classed as 'illegal settlers'.

It's almost as if Jews and Judea have no connection at all.

So AIBU to ask where the Jews originated from if not from there?

I don't feel this belongs on the CITME board as although the war in Gaza has amplified beliefs, this not directly about that.

I'm not aware of any Canaanite, Hittite, Jebusite populations, especially ones that have remained in their communities original location? Maybe I'm just ignorant.

The phrasing of your post suggests that there were no Jews there before modern Israel; this is false.

Oh you were very much mocking. Haha, jews just randomly rocked up with some tenuous claim and chucked everyone out. Even logically that doesn't make any sense Jews were not the governing power.

The actual extant residents were forcibly displaced and came back to their original homeland.

No one needed to be displaced at this point. The displacement happened later - on both sides by the way - due to the refusal to recognise any jewish rights.

So your understanding of what happened in Palestine/Israel is completely flawed as is your understanding of what colonialism is.

You need to read some history

@GarlicSomething ,

‘The idea that any people should have the right to re-colonise the place where their ethnic identity was formed is absurd. You could even apply it to the descendants of the Canaanite, Hittite, Jebusite and other population groups the Hebrews killed and put to rout when conquering the area they named Judaea (according to their own historical accounts).’

See my above post (and many others on here).

Israel coming into being was a messy compromise and, in my opinion, the right thing to do after the Holocaust.

Having said that, many Palestinians did suffer and this needs to be addressed.

However, questioning the State of Israel’s right to exist, as you seem to be doing, does seem to be antisemitic. Would you question America or Australia? They both had native populations and the settlers all believed that their religion (Christianity in those cases) gave them a right to take the land.

Also, wtf is to 'recolonise'?
They're desperate to stick the white colonisers label somehow...

Oh, that's a good point! They're framing the original forced expulsion of Jews from the Holy Land as decolonisation. Yikes.

You won't ever get them to outright admit to that. These protestors would rather carry banners saying Free Palestine with a virtuous derrmined look on their faces. How Palestine is going to be freed is an insight insigificant detail, so long as Israel doesn't exist.

As I stated would you expect a Chinese migrant to say they came from Africa?

It is people like you who seem to think Jews are different from everyone else on the planet. That is a disgusting, discriminatory viewpoint.

I already said I'm an atheist. I consider myself as half Irish, half English as that's what my Ancestry DNA test came back as. No African in it.

Can we assume you think I'm Jewish because I stand with them from your comment 'you seem to be choosing when to start the clock because it suits your religion'.

Exposed yourself there again didn't you.

You have completely deluded yourself into thinking non-Jews wouldn't possibly stand with Jews. Why would that be, I wonder?

No, it already exists. See also Australia, the Americas, etc. Historical events can't be undone. This doesn't mean they were right, couldn't have been done better, or that it's advisable to perpetuate them.

Can I just say, you seem quite angry I started this thread and don't believe I'm posting in good faith, so why haven't you got it pulled and why do you continue posting on it?

Angry about double standards and blatant anti-semitism? You bet.

Jews originate in the Middle East (as far as I know) and absolutely deserve (and need) a sovereign homeland there.

Well, it went over your head. That does not necessarily mean I made the point badly.

What do you mean by perpetuate them?

I am not the poster you quoted but I am sure, as well as me, they don't want Israel to stop existing. However, I would much rather Israel (or any other country) did not engage in military conflict to expand its territory and, instead lived peacefully alongside another ethnic and cultural group who also happened to have historical ties to the land. Baltic countries and many other former Soviet republics were essentially ethnically cleansed as part of Russification policy in interwar and post-war period. Yet, they live (mostly) peacefully alongside descendants of former "occupiers".
If everyone is going to get hysterical shouting "why don't you want Israel to exist" every time this is suggested or implied, then it's no wonder the region remains turbulent.

Notice you haven't responded to the evidence that your analogy completely erases the continuous presence of Jews in the region, or that such statements feed the hatred.

Having said that, many Palestinians did suffer and this needs to be addressed.

Thanks for this acknowledgement, which many others seem unwilling to consider. From the UN:

In November 1947, the UN General Assembly passed a resolution partitioning Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab, with Jerusalem under a UN administration. The Arab world rejected the plan, arguing that it was unfair and violated the UN Charter.

Jewish militias launched attacks against Palestinian villages, forcing thousands to flee. The situation escalated into a full-blown war in 1948, with the departure of British forces. The newly established Israeli forces launched a major offensive. The result of the war was the permanent displacement of more than half of the Palestinian population.

My own view is that this appalling situation can never be resolved. It's millennia old and both sides think they have a supernaturally-approved right to dominate. I take strong issue with this delusion, whoever holds it. No-one has a 'god given' right to a land, and OP's framing of it as an ancestral right is the same thing.

Lying about what?

Read the news.

This completely ignores the violent attacks on Israel and the reasons numerous peace efforts have failed. There is fault on both sides.

And yes, there are plenty of people who have very loudly been calling for the erasure of Israel and those "merely questioning" Israel's conduct have done very little to push back on this.

That sounds great, but you're ignoring the fact that Israel's next door neighbours would like to wipe it out and reclaim the entire territory. They didn't start the most recent war as an expansion intent, despite claims on this thread - it was in response to the mass terrorist attack.

So what now?

Answer properly. Back your claims up.

I'm sure Israel would have preferred the previous two state solution deals were accepted, rather than having missiles launched over their heads on a daily basis. Do you not yet get it - Jews are out to be obliterated, wiped off the face of the earth. That is what FP means. @BlessedIsTheFruit you questioned me being on your thread.if you know certain posters from CITME and you know what an echo chamber it is, did you seriously expect this thread to go any other way?

Which of my comments in particular have done that?

The one likening Jews in Israel to Italians in Britain. One originates from that region and has had a continuous presence there ever since, the other hasn't.