AIBU to think challenging school rules can harm children’s resilience?

[Teenytinypineapple]

AIBU to think that many of those parents who push back against schools and their rules are completely oblivious to the damage they're doing to their children?

The children who do the best are those whose parents instill in them that they should conform. Yes, that will cause difficulties at times. Yes, there will be things they don't like. But that's life. That's how children develop resilience.

Whilst little Timmy and his Mommy are complaining about the school sending him home for wearing the wrong shoes, little Jimmy has learned to suck it up, wear the damn shoes, get his head down and realise it's up to him to make the most of his education.

I repeatedly and consistently inform the school that they are wrong. I tell my kids that the primary school is utter shit. I trust my kids to tell me when to intervene
I'm sorry but are THAT parent. What qualifications do you have to decide unilaterally that they are wrong and you are right? I expect none that rivals with all those employed by the school who will much more experience than you in terms of psychological education.

Parents like you are hard to manage because no matter what explanation they take the time to share, it won't be listened to.

I am bemused by the increasing number of children who automatically answer with 'yes but ...' when they are given an explanation without even taking the time to listen and process what they've just heard.

But what hope is there when that's exactly how their parents behave themselves.

It is so reassuring to see these sorts of reasoned comments. Thank you.

I don't necessarily like the ultra strict ethos and I do think there's an element of breaking their spirt involved in having them apply blindly, but for many complex reasons, schools with the strictest uniform policies do seem to perform best
The problem with strict rules is that it can take away the element of responsibility. I think the best schools are those which not very strict rules but are strict in making sure they are applied.

There are definitely situations in which things should be challenged but there are ways and means to do that. None of which entail a child unilaterally deciding they don't like a rule so they won't follow it. That's where we, as parents and carers, step up to advocate for them in an appropriate way. That's what we should be teaching our children.

But, as you say, that's teachers and parents pushing for change in an appropriate fashion which is a million miles from parents and children unilaterally deciding which rules they want the child to follow.

Erm where have I said I give them a free pass? And I have raised my concerns through appropriate channels! Some rules are stupid. It’s very annoying as a class teacher having to enforce stupid rules about blazers for example. My point is that parents complain about rules that are actually pretty good rules.

Some rules are stupid
How does one ascertain that a rule is worthwhile and others are stupid?

I would to "love" this ten times over. Absolutely spot on. Bigger picture. Much bigger picture.

Common sense.

Oh Christ. They walk among us.

How the hell is your primary school aged child equipped to analyse and decide whether their (adult, educated, experienced) teacher is "actually teaching".

And what are your qualifications to decide what is and what isn't a "stupid policy"?

I imagine your children are a complete pain in the arse and waste so much of their school's time and resources. That, of itself, is selfish but in the end it will be your children who suffer the most and you won't realise until it's too late.

What? No, it doesn’t harm a child to challenge school rules. You are overthinking it. Think about all the adults you know. They all had a different upbringing, some were taught to challenge rules they don’t agree with, and others were taught that it’s important to obey those in authority, and the vast majority of them ended up as functional adults. On the other hand, two siblings with exactly the same upbringing might end up with vastly different values and beliefs as an adult. The way you bring up your child doesn’t matter as much as you think it does.

Very much depends on the school rule. Were you told you're not allowed makeup and you came in made up like a clown and told to wash it off? Well go and wash it off then. (I say this as someone who used to occasionally push the uniform rules at school but accepted the punishments if I got caught). Were you told no eating in the corridors but you ate your packet of crisps anyway? Just take your detention ffs and stop whining.

But, were you told your school skirt was too short, but the official uniform supplier only sells skirts in one length??? Are you in nursery or reception, and your uniform is permanently stained from the activities the school made you do whilst wearing the uniform they make you wear??? Did one teacher tell you one thing, then another teacher punished you for doing what the first teacher said? Did the school arbitrarily change the uniform rules on sock colours mid-year, without telling anyone or writing it in the uniform policy or school website? (all real examples). Then no, we are challenging those rules, maturely and respectfully.

In 1988 we were told we couldn’t wear short shorts because we’d get pregnant.

schools really aren’t that smart, something the passage of time easily demonstrates

Bloody hell 😂

Common sense
But your answer likes common sense! Or are you inferring that what is common sense to YOU is the right answer?

I think children under the age of 6 should be in bed no later than 6pm. You think they are fine going to bed at 8pm.

Which one is common sense?

They all had a different upbringing, some were taught to challenge rules they don’t agree with, and others were taught that it’s important to obey those in authority, and the vast majority of them ended up as functional adults
Well actually I think it's the opposite argument. Children more than ever challenge any rules and more than ever, we are getting young adults who are out of work because they can't adapt to working environments, and increase mental health issues because they can't adapt to society.

So no, I don't think most are doing fine.

Sorry to derail but how on earth do you get a 5 year old to bed for 6pm?! What time are you getting them up in the morning?

Yes blame the kids rather than late stage capitalism. You should go and read about Japan and what’s happening there. Gig economies, no security, lack of prospects. No wonder ours are giving up and opting out.

People are out of work because the system is fucked, because of overpopulation, AI, zero hour contracts, etc. not because they can’t cope. Some of my colleagues are in their early twenties and they’re great, despite their different upbringings. And workplaces should adapt to them and their culture, not the other way round. Our workplace has. For example we got rid of businesswear, because we listened to them and their concerns that it’s old fashioned and stupid and now everybody wears jeans or joggers and we are much comfier.

I haven’t got a six year old so have no opinion on that. Different children have different needs I suppose. I can’t remember what time mine went to bed at that age. That is a parenting issue. I have no control over rules in people’s own homes. I am responsible for pupils in my classroom and stipulating that a blazer has to be worn on entering and exiting a room but can be removed immediately is stupid. Common sense tells you that it doesn’t matter. You aren’t comparing like with like. No doubt you’ll come back with a reason why wearing a blazer upon entering and exiting a room regardless of the temperature is a sensible rule. I won’t be convinced.

This. My DD was the same, and lazy teachers who used whole class punishments instead of dealing with the kids who were actually causing problems ruined her school experience.

Her primary head teacher massively pushed the authoritarian "teachers are always right, never question what an adult tells you to do" line. It backfired tragically when it turned out one of the adults was leveraging that attitude to abuse kids.

OP's stance assumes that all school staff are good at their jobs, honest and fair - this is far from being the case in my experience.

A 4 year old who is going to change the world because he follows all the rules? Right you are 🤣 see what he’s like in 10 years before making these kind of wild prognostications….

I did think the same! No one knows it all like the mother of one young child....

Enjoy the compliance while it lasts @Teenytinypineapple !!

Sorry to derail but how on earth do you get a 5 year old to bed for 6pm?! What time are you getting them up in the morning?
Haha, they're now in their 20s. They used to look at books in bed, start reading. Up at 6am.

Yes blame the kids rather than late stage capitalism. You should go and read about Japan and what’s happening there. Gig economies, no security, lack of prospects. No wonder ours are giving up and opting out
Ha yes, when running out of arguments, blame capitalism! Or the government. Predictable!

Don’t you think society has any impact on young people’s outcomes?