Crying at bake off

[NigellasNeck]

I cried when Molly dropped her cake. Just a few tears.

I'm a saddo aren't I?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that one contestant on a baking show is going to cause an immediate change in the law and registry offices full of marrying throuples etc. It could, however, be the start of the overton window shifting, and people are allowed to say they don't think it should shift on this particular issue.

One poster at least is suggesting that it's not 'a mad extrapolation' to think that it will encourage throuples to want to legalise their union, and that this will then be 'a legal gateway' to approve polygamy.
Which is all quite sensationalist.

no, I am not saying that 'some' people who happen to fit a minority profile are acceptable. The 'some' descriptor means that instead of all the contestants being from a minority group, only a portion of them should be - as is it in society? The current cohort of contestants actually does not reflect society. Minority groups are over represented. For instance many companies always have mixed race couples in their adverts. The reality is that the percentage of mixed race couples in the UK is small. To the average viewer, yes this does feel very forced and unrealistic. You're getting exercised over a perfectly normal view.

I have no idea where you are going with this.

I think people can have sex with, be in a relationship with whomever they want (barring children of course).
I also think that as a society, however, we should not be normalising relationships outside of the pair bond norm in western society.
it is absolutely the case that pushing a normalisation of this can lead to the next question - can these other types of relationships be legally married?
You're making this way more complicated then it is.

What's really interesting about all the diversity wailing is that when the show started, it absolutely did have a quota, and that quota was 50:50 men:women. The show has revitalised and fashionabilised baking to such a staggering extent that it's easy to forget baking was very much the preserve of middle aged women at that point. Home baking had completely fallen out of fashion among younger people, and had never been a mainstream man thing, though of course there would always have been some men who baked.

So on series one, there really were bakers there who were quite limited in skill and went out very quickly because they probably shouldn't have been there in the first place. But the show has had such a huge impact, the standard of home baking has risen in all demographics and they are spoiled for choice across all demographics now.

But I agree with you, there is a really unpleasant attitude to diversity now which means some people can't see beyond a brown skin or a gay relationship and assume a contestant is only there because of box ticking. You can see it in employment too and it must be so shit to be a competent, highly paid black person and know some people think you only got there because, diversity.

How did I know you were going to bring up non-white couples in adverts? That is fast becoming a trope for a certain kind of commenter.
For many years white people were pretty much the only ones represented in culture, and certainly in any positive or even just rounded way – e.g. black/brown characters in TV/film/books etc were only ever criminals/thugs/terrorists, disabled people were absent or played non-speaking or other minor roles, or only ever occupied roles in which their disability was the point.
Are minorities now over-represented on the Bake Off? That's a complex question with not just one simple answer. Looking at the make-up of the UK as a whole, yes. Looking at where I personally live (big city), no.
But even if we say they ARE over-represented, given the long history of minorities' absence from the general culture, and the often problematic ways in which they were shown when they did appear, I would argue that a little bit of redressing the balance is no bad thing.

Also, maybe by 'the average viewer' you mean someone who is not a minority and does not live in a big city where a wider range of people is normal.
If I think of e.g. my family, who live in various small towns/semi-rural locations and who are white British, they don't have a problem with the casting of things like the Bake Off. It's quite offensive IMO to suggest that white British people find it 'forced and unrealistic' and difficult to accept the presence of more than a very few 'other'-looking people on a show. It assumes a certain parochialism and closed-mindedness that is IME pretty rare.

I also think that as a society, however, we should not be normalising relationships outside of the pair bond norm in western society.
I think it's the word 'normalising' that I have an issue with.
There's one person on the Bake Off in a non-conventional relationship structure. Which has been mentioned once, for about five seconds. There may be further brief clips/interviews with one or both of his partners. It will still add up to a small proportion of his on-screen time. And there are 12 (is that right? 13 in total?) further bakers whose relationships are more conventional.
I find very extreme and lurid the idea that this one man is opening the floodgates to something insidious and nefarious.

Thank you, Christ, what a relief to have a change of record!

I do think it's a pity that older WI type women are less represented on the Bake Off now, largely because some of those women were such characters and so inspiring.
But yes, the positive side of that is that the Bake Off means home baking has become popular with people who presumably never thought about doing it before or thought it wasn't for them.
I guess at least the spirit of the older WI type woman is still present – I can't remember who it was, but one of the women comforted Danni in Week 1 with a hug and 'It's just bloody cake!'

I obviously can't speak for anyone else on the thread but isn't the problem when contestants are clearly not competent, and then viewers start to wonder why they are there? It may well be a cynical view but I don't think it's illogical as such? For example I don't think Dani was anywhere near the standard of the rest of them - but she was a super-zany vegan forager who rebuilds computers in her spare time, so she makes good TV as opposed to good cakes. Diversity is a great thing but it shouldn't override merit. And, separately, I don't really want to explain throuples to my kids just yet, so it's turning an innocent family show into something I'm a bit more cautious with, sadly.

I kind of agree with this about the older women... now that baking is fashionable, it's Nana appropriation! These women have been the stalwarts of baking through generations, they've kept the skills going and the family recipes alive even when they were joked about and painted into stereotypes. And now that 22 year old Londoners have started making cake decorating TikToks it's suddenly cool 🤣 #justiceforthenanas

she makes good TV as opposed to good cakes.
I think it's more that other people made better cakes than she did, in those weeks, in those circumstances (I mentioned above an interesting thing Alison H said about the pressure of baking in the tent).
And I'd also argue (artually I already have; I feel a bit like I'm shouting into the void) that they cast for people who make good TV AND good cakes. I know Danni's showstopper went wrong this week, but it was amazing in concept; a brilliant idea.
So I would say diversity exists alongside merit.

As for explaining throuples to kids, again I'm repeating myself, but there's been just a few seconds of Gabe's relationship set-up. I'd imagine not all kids would have even noticed it or been interested to the point where they needed to ask about it. Also, isn't it generally the case that you tell kids the minimum and that they take on board as much as their age allows and the rest goes over their heads? So to a small kid in answer to why that man lives with two other people, 'Some people love two other people.' When they're old enough to have more of a discussion with, you do so.

That is the downside and I also think #justiceforthenanas ! But it's also an upside, if more people, especially people who didn't think baking was for them, are discovering and loving it...

Or she just got through the screen tests and in-tent baking trials OK, but just couldn't cope well with the actual pressures of filming? From what previous contestants have said, even with the desire to cast for a variety of broadly appealing 'types' (which has been there since early seasons), potential contestants are still subjected to rounds of interviews with questions about what exactly they bake at home, the specifics of baking techniques etc, before they get to the screentest stage.

I can't imagine the GBBO casting director saying 'Well, she can't bake at all, but she'll be excellent TV!' Though one imagines they will have some idea in advance who's likely to survive till the later rounds...?

Also, if Danni told them she was vegan and wouldn't be tasting anything she baked in the tent that wasn't, and had sent in (well in advance, as required) a non-vegan cookie recipe, then I think that's at least partly on the production team for not saying 'No, you can't bake stuff in the tent that you're not tasting and have never been able to taste when practicing!'

I haven't watched GBBO much in years, but what's the position on vegan bakers before now? Surely the technicals are overwhelmingly not vegan, so they must previously have had vegan bakers who couldn't taste as they were going along, even if they only made vegan recipes when left to themselves?

Yes, but everyone in UK is either white or not. So a mixed family represents ALL OF US!

Then you don’t understand the process of ‘normalisation’ and the media’s role in it.

I've watched every series of GBBO and I'm struggling to recall any other vegans bakers - though happy to be corrected on this. There have been times where bakers have chosen to make a bake vegan, and I feel there was a vegan week once, but never a vegan contestant.

The technicals are more often than not going to be non-vegan and they can't give one person a different recipe meaning Danni was always going to be on the back foot there. I feel a little mean saying this, but just as the format would exclude a coeliac I think it should exclude vegans. IMO it was a little bit of a casting mistake.

it isn’t a mad extrapolation. Overton windows shifting can absolutely lead to these things.

Was it a good idea? 😅 The brief was a mosaic - a picture made out of small squares - so she picked something that is already made up of small squares (a keyboard). It's like someone making a mosaic picture of a tiled floor 🤣 Anyway, sorry, I digress. I take the point about the pressure of the tent, and yes she must have done okay in the screen tests, but I do wonder how she fared when compared to e.g. someone who was better technically but very boring!

It’s hilarious that you think people there weren’t chosen precisely because of their identity.

Thanks, that's interesting. I think I remember a vegan week, but as I have only watched it sporadically for a while, I wasn't sure whether there had been any/many fully vegan bakers, or whether they would even cast them because of issues with either having to give them an adapted version of the technical or accept that they wouldn't be able to taste their own technical bake. (Though Danni obviously made the two technicals while she was in the tent...?)

And definitely far harder to make a vegan version of the kind of stable 'tough' cake you need to be able to stack high and sculpt for some of the more ambitious challenges...

and how did I know this would be your response ……

Every reality show, in which I'd absolutely include GBBO, casts for 'type'. in GBBO it's cast for 'likeable'/'cosy' + type+ ability to bake (preferably with something unusual in terms of ingredients/approach eg flavours from another culture, an interest in medieval recipes, foraged ingredients), unlike, say, Big Brother, which casts at least in part for conflict.

Their casting director has said that the GBBO casting holy grail is the 'unlikely baker', and that their perfect example had been Rahul, the babyfaced shy, unwittingly hilarious, perma-apologising Indian nuclear scientist who Skyped his parents daily and started baking when he was lonely after he arrived in the UK. He was absolutely the nation's darling that season.

That's not what I said. I said, there are good bakers across all demographics. Clearly they want to represent a wide range of demographics, with a bias towards the younger end as they want to attract younger audiences. Some bakers are stronger than others. But I wouldn't assume what you see in the tent is the best they can do.

Freya was vegan and did quite well but couldn't successfully veganise everything. It was odd Dani chose a non vegan recipe for her cookies, they aren't the hardest thing to veganise.

To the PP who said GBBO made baking popular again- yes it has but it just hopped on an existing trend and ran with it . i think Nigella Lawson repopularised home baking and made it trendy about a decade before GBBO did, back in the when she released The Domestic Goddess cookbook.
It was the millennium and everyone was looking to the future so the book was at odds with what a lot of women were viewing as aspirational domesticity or aspirational skills to have in the modern world at the time.

So much so that Nigella was grilled about it on tv and radio and basically asked if she thought it was anti feminist, to promote baking. I remember it- I remember hearing her talk about it and being a bit pissed off by her and thinking she was letting the side down by being a beautiful woman promoting domestic goddessing ,while many of us were still struggling to be taken seriously in our jobs. I grew up a bit and realised that things are more complicated, over the years..

But anyway TDG was a bestseller and it promoted something very attractive about food and creativity and wanting to share something nice with others,… or to impress others, or to control something by following a clear process, or waning to be thanked, or to be praised, or just to make someone happy who isn’t- it made home baking a thing and Nigella wrote thoughtfully about cooking as an expression of all of the zillions of reasons why anyone might bake and share food with other people (or eat it all themselves).

Nigella is very intelligent and I imagine would not be unaware of what her aspirational books were tapping into and selling. So for me personally being only a bit younger than Nigella Lawson, because I remember the days pre-Nigella, of being interested in baking cakes being seen as a cringey thing.. I am happy to see GBBO casting a diverse mix of people baking. I think baking is really a nice skill to have and it’s great that young people are into it.