To struggle to believe this person is being left routinely passing out and unconscious for hours?

[frequentlybaffuckled]

Put it all in to not drip feed.

They do apparently often have Bradycardia. They also clearly are disabled. They have been around medical care and hospitals a lot, and clearly have both health and general anxiety. They eat poorly and self care and MH are not good.
Visibly drained, pale, thin, unwell, low energy, unable to walk without aids.
I feel bad for questioning them at all.

Their life has fallen apart and it's clear general professionals around them aren't really doing a lot partly because the person makes it hard work.

I've been doing lots to get them out of the mess, into better situations and it's been working. Practicality wise we're almost over a huge life changing line.

I'm now hitting a wall both with my own pissed off suspicions that they may feel weak, wobbly and sleep a great deal but are capable of being woken by an alarm, rather than be, literally, as they claim, suddenly collapsing without warning, (always in a bed or chair, never in a public place or in front of friends) at any time, and being literally unconscious for hours.

And, with the fact that is now being used as a reason to not to turn up to important appointments or agreed times to do things for them that they have asked for, which messes up my life.

They are outraged at me proposing they still have to take responsibility and practical answers: IE Wont lend me a shed key so a delivery can happen regardless. But insistent they may be unconscious and expect the delivery driver to return as many times as it takes, and me to come to help, for them to get their goods. (made up example close to realities)
Or I arrive with someone and materials to do a hard five hour job (free) and they aren't there because 'They where unconscious' for the first three hours, so I'll 'have to do a little and come back another day.'
They are claiming this is their disability and I need to recognize I'm discriminating against them if I don't accept it and work around this not yet diagnosed awful condition. They rarely even say sorry. 'As it isn't their fault.'

They have said their conditions are complex and have mentioned neurological, complex, bradycardia, ELS, and it's been confirmed they have over 20 diagnoses. (I question how many might be non serious type)

Would Dr's really be leaving someone living alone, collapsing all over the place and literally unconscious for hours? (they are 'difficult' and the sort of person wards seem very keen not to keep)

Or am I being an ignorant rotten ablest bitch here and need to listen to them and believe and center them?

@frequentlybaffuckled
In all honesty, I can see you are deeply concerned ad frustrated by going around in circles without getting anything to change. I hear it in everything you write. But, kindly, I think you also need to be realistic about what health/social care/local authority responsibilities are to your relative, and their own responsibilities (assuming they have capacity). I do understand being unable to see the wood for the trees, as you are caught in the middle.

i do wonder about these long periods of loss of consciousness. In my experience it would be unusual for dr’s to ignore these symptoms completely and not even consider investigation. Sudden LOC for long periods is quite an unusual symptom. From a medico-legal point of view it is indefensible, though obviously it is also true that doctors get things wrong and medical negligence is a possibility. I wonder, though, given the other things you have alluded to with regards to this person, whether this is actually happening the way they are describing? I strongly suspect that the symptoms are not actually as described- perhaps an exaggeration (very tired/sleepy, rather than true LOC for example) or their perception of duration is inaccurate. If that is the case, this pattern of behaviour is not new- as a doctor, these patients are so difficult, especially when they do have other co-morbid health conditions. It usually is more related to mental health or profound social issues- this is a symptom which they know should elicit investigation and care, understanding and so on- but because their is no underlying cause found (and especially if there is a history of “medically unexplained symptoms”) when they are assessed there is no intervention to be put in place. So, from their perspective they are not receiving what they understand is normal standards of care. This drives an escalation as they seek validation- this then becomes more important than getting better, treatment for other health conditions and so on. It’s not a deliberate fabrication, in most cases, but there is not always a physical cause for the symptom- or it is benign.

All of that said, if a patient has capacity and repeatedly fails to attend appointments without notice, they will be discharged from outpatient medical clinics. If they repeatedly don’t turn up at the gp, or go for tests the gp requests, they will not continually chase them. If an individual does not engage with social work, or refuses the care (whether from the outset or later on) or housing options available, they cannot and will not force it. They will accept that this individual is making bad choices, which they are entitled to do, and pull back. They can’t help someone who doesn’t want the help that is being offered (and available). The reality is their responsibilities end when an appropriate assessment has been done and correct support offered- if it is declined by a person who has capacity, there is not much more they can do. Their responsibilities have also been fulfilled and they will have to move on to the next person who is in need. Obviously, there are grey areas- some people will go the extra mile to persuade, keep a close eye on a vulnerable person, and so on- for example.

I know you said your relative says they want help, ask for help and so on- but it also sounds like they want that help- including your efforts- only on their terms, to their specifications (and don’t much care whether that meets their needs, as long as their demands are met) and anything else is met with bewilderment, anger and refusal. That is just unrealistic- it is impossible for social and health services to be able to tailor their input to meet each patients exact preferences. With limitless funds and resources, it might be, but we are a world away from that. The reality is that your relative may well be letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, so to speak.

It is hard when you can see someone suffering and see how things could be made better for them, but I think you are in an impossible situation unless your relative can be persuaded or helped to be more realistic.

@Clonakilla yes

@andweallsingalong It wouldn't be appropriate for me to say, but little obvious standout.. But to at least some level, your 2nd paragraph is likely, for what ever reasons.

@SquirrelGG They don't want assisted living, but it has been agreed they would pass the needs assessment to be granted it if they did.

@OrdinaryGirl Not taken badly at all. Don't know it by name but very familiar with Victim-Rescuer-Persecutor triangle and how individuals switch roles and the need to step out of the triangle and adapt behaviors. I learnt about empowerment dynamics and applied them.
It didn't make me feel less like I was being forced into 'rescuer' who used different methods, by both them and often professionals.

Person would still not accept my boundaries so after enough warning I removed myself and left it to the professionals. It went from bad to worse and I kept a big distance.
They have now been allowed by everyone to hit total rock bottom twice and this is the third time on the precipice. But it is also notable how chaotic and lacking services have been outside of the persons own chaos.

Each rock bottom, eventually something so awful has happened that it has later entitled them to another chance of LA intervention.
The only thing that has changed from them from it, is more MH damage and visibly worsened health.

Because I'm NOK services contacted me to say they were coming to the end of having any further relationship with the person as options have been exhausted.

We discussed statuary duty, and why they hadn't even tried going down some standard routes? It resulted in them making me an offer to hold off withdrawing services, while I tried pursuing those routes, as a last ditch to them setting the person entirely adrift again.

I took it up as my last ditch involvement too, and got agreement from the person to go after it as a great alternative to what was on the cards. Now all teetering as to if it will go over the line into 'new start for them and services' or not.
If it's not, all services are being withdrawn again.

@EricTheHalfASleeve Cant answer the question, but way past duty to rehouse stages.

@ImogenBrocklehurst Yes, but it's not simple failure to engage, it's more not engaging 'normally' or understanding what that means, and being generally hard work. As well as it seems a lack of services being joined up, and a lot of trainee workers not following standard systems, and constant turnover.
Person very much wants support but often offered inappropriate or incomplete support so what's offered can't work, as well as them not co-operating particularly well. Their needs and offers often don't match up. (including from me)

I've read everyone's comments carefully and do appreciate the opinions and knowledge. .

@jacks11 again you are talking sense, and sadly echoing much of what I feel.
But tbf, they attend every medical appointment offered.
They just run medical practitioners out of time because they can't stay on track etc, and it's clear that they are seen as too resource heavy and hard work when there's a big list of others to get through.

Hospital they are usually very unwell if actually admitted which means their 'health anxiety' is at peak and likely to disrupt.

No, the medical profession would not be ignoring symptoms of loss of consciousness. If initial tests didn’t determine the cause then a loop recorder would be suggested (you can look it up). Has anyone ever actually witnessed these episodes of loss of consciousness?

@jacks11 Also am absolutely not a Dr, hence asking the question in the first place. But I am disabled and actually fall (conscious) a lot. (part condition part 'poor choices')
I know statistically how often I manage to either reduce potential injury on the way down, get away with just big bruises, and how much actual 'really does need treatment' injury, stitches, or fractures happen. I'd expect at least a fraction of what I take for granted in myself.

Person does seem remarkably lucky in this regard.

@EllaPaella They (and I) have had heart monitors. In their case for much shorter periods. It has picked up Bradycardia and something as well and there are ongoing investigations.
They have asked to be left on a monitor for longer, but that hasn't happened.

But the wheels can turn very slowly, and I know this from my own issues.

I only know stories of what apparently happened when others that I don't know, apparently observed these episodes, and that I personally never have.

I think this is the most sensible comment here OP and you need to really listen to what this poster is saying.

Your friend/relative is refusing help and if they have capacity then the social help will move on to the next person in line who does want their help. They dont get to demand the help exactly on their terms and refuse to be sensible and help themselves.
Id be extremely surprised if they are actually losing consciousness for extended periods of times and have been told to just accept this. Are they suggesting they fall into a coma for extended periods of time repeatedly which then ends without intervention... repeatedly?
Its also quite sus that its not once happened in public.
Unfortunately this sort of situation is not uncommon and people exaggerate symptoms and convince themselves of things, some people dont actually want to get better because thats all they know. Its easier to blame everyone else than to take some responsibility.
And before everyone jumps on me, Im not saying this person isnt ill or disabled but they are refusing to make their situation any better or to appropriately engage with services and their comes a point when you just have to move on.

My DD has what are called functional seizures, which sound the same. She also has epilepsy, just to confuse the issue.