To struggle to believe this person is being left routinely passing out and unconscious for hours?

[frequentlybaffuckled]

Put it all in to not drip feed.

They do apparently often have Bradycardia. They also clearly are disabled. They have been around medical care and hospitals a lot, and clearly have both health and general anxiety. They eat poorly and self care and MH are not good.
Visibly drained, pale, thin, unwell, low energy, unable to walk without aids.
I feel bad for questioning them at all.

Their life has fallen apart and it's clear general professionals around them aren't really doing a lot partly because the person makes it hard work.

I've been doing lots to get them out of the mess, into better situations and it's been working. Practicality wise we're almost over a huge life changing line.

I'm now hitting a wall both with my own pissed off suspicions that they may feel weak, wobbly and sleep a great deal but are capable of being woken by an alarm, rather than be, literally, as they claim, suddenly collapsing without warning, (always in a bed or chair, never in a public place or in front of friends) at any time, and being literally unconscious for hours.

And, with the fact that is now being used as a reason to not to turn up to important appointments or agreed times to do things for them that they have asked for, which messes up my life.

They are outraged at me proposing they still have to take responsibility and practical answers: IE Wont lend me a shed key so a delivery can happen regardless. But insistent they may be unconscious and expect the delivery driver to return as many times as it takes, and me to come to help, for them to get their goods. (made up example close to realities)
Or I arrive with someone and materials to do a hard five hour job (free) and they aren't there because 'They where unconscious' for the first three hours, so I'll 'have to do a little and come back another day.'
They are claiming this is their disability and I need to recognize I'm discriminating against them if I don't accept it and work around this not yet diagnosed awful condition. They rarely even say sorry. 'As it isn't their fault.'

They have said their conditions are complex and have mentioned neurological, complex, bradycardia, ELS, and it's been confirmed they have over 20 diagnoses. (I question how many might be non serious type)

Would Dr's really be leaving someone living alone, collapsing all over the place and literally unconscious for hours? (they are 'difficult' and the sort of person wards seem very keen not to keep)

Or am I being an ignorant rotten ablest bitch here and need to listen to them and believe and center them?

My MIL was like this, she has a heart condition and has 'episodes' that result in her being taken to hospital. She refused to have a key safe and so wouldn't ring and ambulance but phone my DH to get him to race 15 mins up the road and phone an ambulance on the way. I'm sure she just liked being an inconvenience to her kids and having them at her beck and call. Refused to have grab rails after a hip replacement, didn't want carers and when they did come it wasn't early enough so one of her kids had to go round even hough they both work. Would phone up to complain about pain and then say she didn't want the kids to go up there... obviously she did, otherwise why call them. In my opinion it's attention seeking and control

No. It confirmed a diagnosis of FND. You brought up fibromyalgia, not me. You were suggesting that if FND is difficult to diagnose and treat it was similar to fibromyalgia, when in fact it’s nothing like it. It’s often misdiagnosed and was in my friends’ case until she was admitted to hospital after a seizure and referred to a neurologist who did the necessary tests.

You aren't qualified to deal with this to be able to help this person to a satisfactory outcome. Sounds as if they have mental health issues. I can't see what else you could do if they are not in a position to work with you. Don't let this drag you down, too.

"There have been many crisis's. Letting them entirely fail means watching a frail disabled person free fall on to the streets, and go with whoever will take them home and look after them. You can imagine some of what happens next, and then when something awful enough happens, someone intervenes and the cycle starts over with them even more damaged, but not learning. This is the closest to 'magically getting it together' they have ever managed, sliding down further each time.
I have raised if they should be in assisted living, but they don't Yet qualify.
There are positive sides to them as well, but they're rarely seen these days.
What they are on the brink of, could be a basis for a new future if they can get over the line."

Perhaps then they will be forced into a facility though. Is there a version of adult protective services where you are?

The thing is they might well have all these diagnoses. But, they have to have reasonable adjustments, not impossible ones. It's about them accepting practical solutions such as a key safe or a parcel box to accommodate and safeguard their life. So, if they collapse and need urgent medical help no one will know or be able to access them to check. The difference in urgent medical help being available to them when they need it may mean they're lying in a pool of blood dying a slow, painful death, at worst, or with a broken leg at best, for hours and days.

They have to be told and it's tough love based on risk assessment. Nothing less and nothing more. And you? You've got to draw boundaries and use some tough love on yourself. You've enabled them.

I withdrew my message. This is a precis of it.

What works in psychology theory, doesn't always in real life. I have done all the listening and believing before trying to get on with practical stuff. They have had huge amounts of my time listening, in order to become comfortable enough for me to even start thinking of doing the simplest of tasks they have asked for.
It works for them but is never enough.

I cant give them seven hours listening, then for the last hour 'start papering a room' and also be packed up and left. Come back in three days and do the same all over again. Nothing gets done. Then the depression is blamed on no one finished 'papering the room.'

I can't fill my car with equipment, them not turn up, and have to take it all away and unload it so it doesn't get stolen. Then reload it all again as many times as it suits them.

The questioning and potential disbelief from me, isn't kind of me, or my finest moment, but is actually only recent and their behaviors all pre- date it.

I use the word hysteria to describe a state where someone has screamed and shouted and cried so much they are now continuously choking, unable to breathe, shaking, unable to see, and are going to blackout as a result of being uncontrollably upset.
Is there is a kinder word to describe this?

I may well be 'triggering' all sorts of things, but anything that results in tears or additional stress requires a lot of sleeping it off. They are genuinely easily exhausted especially by stress. (But they insist on engaging in things that will make them cry a lot, and stress them terribly)

time is running out for them because the LA has come to the end of the road.
I'm all sorts of not great things, but no one else is prepared to do anything anymore, and I have previously too.

They trust no one, because everyone always leaves.

I am their NOK and duty SW calls their SW who calls me to go check.
I am now refusing. So now no checks happen when concerns get raised.
Yes they have had alarms supplied at each address. It isn't CM poisoning.

@Foodwench66 No they wont be forced into a facility, they will be left on the streets at the mercy of weather and predators, as having a right to make bad choices and having been declared intentionally homeless through choice.

Then eventually they will either be attacked badly enough, or hospitalized through medical need, that intervention starts again. But their health is worse, rules harder and what they can have, less.

It's a cycle designed for people with addiction issues with the expectation that they will seek treatment, and learn from experience if they live long enough.
If they don't the problem has sorted itself out.

I may be unreasonable, but I believe the SW should be trying to prevent them going round this cycle again and again. But I don't know.

@LHP118 They have been told. They aren't hearing.
Saying yes enables them in one direction.
Saying no enables them in another.

My original clumsy question was trying to 'risk assess' if I was wrong to be sticking to saying no to them.

People certainly can be unconscious for a variety of reasons and for some people it does happen a number of times.

It would be unusual for the regular loss of consciousness to never result in an injury.

Whether they suffer anything they claim they do or not, it’s all a red herring. You can suffer from any or all of that, yet still need to be reasonable and make reasonable arrangements if requesting people do things for you, be it paid or unpaid. That’s the issue. If you believe you may be unconscious for a period of time (whether or not that’s valid), then you need to provide alternative forms of access for people who are doing things, pre-arranged at your request/agreement. If this is not facilitated then the person, illness or not, is being unreasonable and the consequence is that people don’t do things for them.

Sorry if this has already been said, but what was their childhood like? You don't have to answer, especially if they are a sibling.

I'm thinking potentially personality disorder and self sabotaging due to low self worth along with on one level enjoying the attention and value they feel when looked after. Not believing, understanding or having faith that life could be better if they took the help on offer to improve their situation/worrying that if it worked everyone would disappear and they would be unloved.

I would prioritise mental health appointments, but not be surprised if traditional approaches fail. Maybe ask about DBT.

Honestly OP, their life sounds completely chaotic and almost as though they should be in full time care! You must have the patience of a saint.

Caveat: haven’t RTFT. Completely aside from any medical issues and the justification / veracity of these, my first reaction is the sense that you’ve got pulled into a Dreaded Drama Triangle (Victim-Rescuer-Persecutor), and the relationship has become enmeshed. I think there is something in here about appropriate levels of responsibility and exploring (maybe with support from a therapist or trusted mate) what hooks and triggers this situation with this person is bringing up for you.

Also maybe have a Google of the Daniel Karpman Drama Triangle and see if any of it resonates. Not having a go, honestly, it just seems like there may be bigger and wider issues at play and that looking at these might be helpful in making the situation feel more manageable for YOU.
Wishing you well, OP.

Just to add to my previous comment - I do get that you have some responsibility towards this person and I’m not being flip about that. I’ve just seen a lot of similar situations where the person helping is actually stopping the other person from hitting the rock bottom they need to reach to take an appropriate level of responsibility and show up for their own life.
There is a bit of ‘Let Them’ here, and allowing consequences to unfold, however hard that may be, if for no other reason than because what you’re currently doing is not working.

I should add that I’m sorry you’re in this situation, it sounds really hard and you sound like you care very much about this person being appropriately supporting into living the best life they possibly can 💐

Honestly - this sounds mostly down to their personality. Spending hours negotiating and crying for you to be 'allowed' to do a domestic task is not behaviour caused by a medical problem. It could be caused by major mental health problems (possible, not something you can sort), dementia (which from your description they don't have), or their own personality.

The key question is why are they at risk of eviction? Is it failing to allow essential repairs to a LA property? The LA will have to rehouse if they present as homeless after eviction- they'll end up somewhere worse but it's hard to be sympathetic when they scream cry themselves into oblivion and refuse to engage with essential services. I would be very sceptical about their narrative of being unconscious for hours (based on the behaviour you describe)

My 1st thoughts from what you describe is meltdown and then not remembering ie being ‘unconscious’ afterwards, so ND and extreme MH issues, if they aren’t looking for help themselves then it’s very difficult for them to get help.

Demand for most services are overwhelming and it doesn't sound like this person massively helps themselves. It sounds like a lot of the time then they don't take much responsibility and have lots of explanations about why they "can't" (sounds like doesn't want to!) e.g. the shed key. I would leave them to get on with it and no longer listen to the moaning or suggest work arounds. They sound very contrary and hard work

It is very very unlikely that anyone would have repeated bouts of sudden 'unconsciousness' that never resulted in physical injury and were never witnessed by anyone else.

Their behaviour with you suggests this is all personality disorder/mental health issues. For whatever reason, they're not taking responsibility for their own lives, and nothing is going to change unless they do. Give only the time/emotional input you can spare, and don't expect anything you do to change anything.

But if they have been deemed to have capacity there is very little you can do. They have effectively made a choice of their own free will. The consequences have been explained to them, they are aware of the expectations and there is no apparent reason they can't fulfil them other than their own choices.

I have worked with many people in this situation and it's emotionally hard on you. But, you do have to protect yourself and you can't hold yourself responsible for an outcome which is beyond your control.

This. It sounds like a personality disorder and trying to help with the physical health stuff is a road to nowhere while the MH is untreated. I feel for you OP- you sound very kind and determined but make sure you have strong boundaries in place

is anyone else thinking 'polycule'?

A relative of mine made a lot of bad decisions, in spite of doctors telling him otherwise to change his lifestyle, stop smoking, eat and sleep better etc. He was very intelligent but seemed to lack the capacity to make a decision that enhanced his health, and it was sad to watch his decline. My poor dad was trying his best to help, but it was hard work at times.

Sometimes we can try to help those who need it but unfortunately ultimately it's probably their perogative to have the final say.

I haven’t read the full thread, so apologies if it’s already been said, but if this person is assessed as having capacity then it is their choice about how much support they accept. Having capacity means they have the right to make their own decisions, even if those decisions are detrimental to their own wellbeing. I have a social work adjacent role, and support is frequently offered and declined. Support cannot be forced on an individual, so will be reduced if they do not engage. Could this be the case here?

You do need to hold your own boundaries and be prepared to step back rather than let your boundaries be set aside.

Being very ill and disabled is something that can happen to cheekyfucker narcissists just as much as to nice people.

It's very kind of you to offer the help that you are, but it is ok for you to say "no" if more is demanded. It is not "discrimination" for you to be unable to offer more than is within your capacity to give.

I had to look that up, but absolutely not. But actually thank you for making me laugh when I saw what it meant. 😂Every day is a school day.
If it was any sort of partner they would be history.