Rise of far right

[Sillyme1]

Any one else worried about the rise of the far right in Europe. Churchill once said ‘those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it’. Obviously social conditions are different from the 1930s, but there are similarities such as using immigrants as scapegoats (not Jews this time). Things can so easily escalate and I admit to being worried

It is rare that I have seen anyone denounced as far right or racist who wasn't one or both of those things.

There are ways to voice reasonable concerns. Calmly and with factual backup. Very often people voice things in a way which is racist, and then object to being called out on it.

Did I say it was just Burnham? The whole system is wrong. If someone gets sacked or relinquishes power during their term in office, then a GE should be triggered. This would then eliminate parties continuously getting rid of their leader, and eliminate the ridiculous fact that we have had seven different PMs in 10 years.

It's also obvious that you wish for the forum to remain predominantly left wing. All in the name of looking after women's rights, of course. A shame Green voters don't feel the same about those rights.

I'm not surprised. The Police have been busy knocking on peoples' door because they put "hurty words" on Social Media -
https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/select-communications-offences-and-concerns-over-free-speech/

I'm still looking for the latest stats but for the moment - https://factually.co/fact-checks/justice/uk-online-communications-arrests-charged-convicted-imprisoned-stats-b0f70c

This.

We cannot take on an unlimited obligation to take care of anyone, anywhere, who wants to come here.

Most low paid economic migrants should only be allowed in on short term visas. There should be no assumption that they can stay here forever and bring multiple family members here, and no entitlement to benefits. If their circumstances change so they can't work, they go home.

We should help asylum seekers primarily by supporting them in countries near their home. A limited number, who should have a demonstrable commitment to the values of the UK, including respecting women as human beings equal to men, should be offered asylum and given generous support to integrate into our society. People who enter irregularly should be immediately deported, and no asylum claims considered.

I realise this may be in conflict with the current interpretation of the European Convention on Human Rights. That is because the legal interpretation has evolved far from what was originally intended, and is now in conflict with the human rights of European citizens. Ideally all the European countries should agree that the interpretation be changed, but if not we need to leave.

EXACTLY!!!

No conception that the vast majority of society deems their unemployed, scrounging carcasses as unwanted, rather than the productive member of society who just happens to be brown skinned.

Par for the course.

Very few people think it's a good idea. I certainly don't. However, if we are going to have a discussion, let's base it on facts. Numbers were thrown out which were exaggerations by a factor of 10. So let's get down to the real numbers first, then we can discuss it.

You have provided the real numbers, and I agree with you that they are too high. I'm absolutely certain that most MPs and the government agree with us. But actually finding a solution is really hard. The government has reduced numbers this year by 40%, which is great, and it continues to try. But what will definitely not help is black clad masked men in the streets, nationalist bellicose rhetoric and an abandonment of international obligations and our compassion as a nation.

That's what you think about you, but it's not the definition of a native population.

It smacks of Norman Tebbit's Cricket Test, and not I believe, what @Lemonraider meant either, though they were unable to engage with evidence and agreements.

Just like some listen to Burnham and believe him.

Or maybe just keen for the majority of MN members to be humans rather than AI?

I disagree.
I have always thought that if MN got any further left it would meet itself coming back.

Who is AI on the thread?

Yes and most of the new immigrants gravitate towards the poorer neighbourhoods. So we get the toxic situation of poorer people shouldering the burden, grumbling about it and either being ignored or called racists, bigots etc by better off people who are completely unaffected by it and who can talk glibly about 'enrichment.'

It's so toxic and this is what mainstream parties are expecting us to accept as normal.

Yeah whatever. You trying to pick a fight with me isn't helping your cause. I'm not interested anyway. Goodbye!

There's no native population in Britain. Anyone from anywhere in the world is British, there's millions of unborn people in every country in the world that are British, British just means person from anywhere. The other 199 countries all have their own people but not Britain, it has always been populated by the entire planet and there are no native people at all, it's always been a Pakistani, Indian, Romanian, African and Arab country. The words Pakistani, Indian, Middle Eastern and African simply mean British and always have done for millennia, since time began. Native people have never lived here, it's always been the case that the majority of babies born here were from other countries, in fact the United Kingdom isn't actually a country at all, it's simply a suburb of Pakistan India Africa and the middle east. The word country doesn't apply to Britain, only the rest of the world's countries.

OK that's a view, but it would mean a fundamental change in the way our democracy has always functioned, and doesn't say much for your view of Parliament.

I wonder if you're one of the people who profess to be a patriot and to love their country. You don't seem keen on its central democratic tenet though.

I live and work in area of a major city which would cause Tommy-Ten-Names-Who-Is-Actually-An-Illegal-Immigrant-Himself to develop a Hernia. My colleagues come from all over the world. The service users come from all over the world, and came over in all sorts of different ways. Why aren't I scared? Why don't I live in fear? If they were right, I ought to be running from machete wielding rapists every day. Instead we have a thriving high street, beautiful parks, lots of great options for food, and yes, there are still plenty of British people.

It's in stark contrast to the town centre in my home town which is overwhelmingly white, completely dead and full of (white) crackheads.

Funnily enough, Reform and Restore have a stranglehold on my hometown. It tends to be areas which do not have a major migrant population which these parties target - it's easier to get people riled up about people they don't know. Easier to create a boogeyman out of strangers.

Generational poverty and lack of opportunity are a major issue in small towns and cities across the UK. Industry has left, people don't go to the shops as much any more, and 'the others' are always the scapegoat. Take the migrants out of Clacton for example, and their issues wouldn't change, because it's about 2% of the population.

I'd rather have 100 of my migrants neighbours (and friends) than one of Frog Face's ilk living next to me. I do hope that communities that need support and investment feel heard and get what they need, whatever their make up.

Yep!

Nah. And I consider myself very much a centrist.

I don’t know which way Mumsnet leans generally but I think it just reflects society. There has always been a far right and fairly racist component in MN (as opposed to merely anti-immigrant). But I think that’s just society too.

Britain is a very centrist and tolerant country but also has a strong sense of fairness.

I'm not sure that view would be shared by immigrants, people of ethnic minorities or disabled people.

Could you give some examples please. When and where were there "centralist" governments that would now fit the description of "far right"

You are talking rubbish.

This is why I don't get the whole Zia Yusuf thing. As if Reform's key demographic wouldn't have him on the first plane to Pakistan if they could. And yet he's their biggest public cheerleader!