to leave ten year old twins in a cafe while I swim?

[justkeepswimminginalake]

I’m a single parent to ten year old twins and I was hoping to start open water swimming again. There’s a swimming lake near me which has an onsite cafe and I was thinking about leaving the boys in the cafe by themselves while I swim. We’ve been to the cafe a few times and it’s fairly chilled, mostly swimmers (and their friends/families), young families and old people. It’s also next door to the reception area for the swimming lakes so if they feel uncomfortable there’s somewhere else they can go.

Would I be unreasonable to order them breakfast and a drink and leave them there for half an hour while I swim. They’re generally pretty sensible and I’d pack Yotos with headphones, and some games and books for them to entertain themselves. There’s no one else who can take them.

If you are driving there just leave them in the car surely

I haven't invented anything, I've answered your question as to why it's up to the private premises in question as to whether they allow unaccompanied children.

If it's a tourist type spot then there's a fairly high chance they won't allow it, if it's more like a leisure centre type then they won't bat an eye at the suggestion. Regardless, it's up to them.

And what if they had taken themselves to the park Instead?

You shouldn't give the cafe owner any responsibility or make them feel that they are anyway responsible for your kids but you can tell your kids if there is a problem to ask an adult in the cafe or the cafe staff to contact you or another trusted adult whose phone number you have given them. If you don't think they would do this or have the confidence to do this then they are not mature enough to be left alone.

I think the biggest worry at this age is that they will argue but im basing this on my experiences!

But we are not disagreeing with the business policies, you are making them up. If the cafe has a problem then let them tell the customers. Up to what age do you think people need to ask a cafe permission to go there? Would you say the same if it was McDonald’s?

Just sent my 10yo off to school by himself. Even has to cross a busy London road, though he is allowed to cheat by using the traffic lights. And neurodiverse. And no phone. Concerned this is outing as I must be the only one to consider something so risky…

Glad some some sensible people have joined the thread. Haven’t seen any reasonable justification for those people that are appalled by the idea. I can only assume they haven’t met any 10yos.

OP - you don’t need to ask permission from the cafe. It makes it seem like an issue when it is not. And as PPs have said, implies a need for them to supervise when there is not.

Exactly!

@Besidemyselfwithworry (appropriate username) going for a swim does not make someone unhinged.

Why is that safer than a cafe? In hot weather staying in the car can be unsafe and what if they need the toilet.

I haven't made a policy up, I have told the op it is only fair she finds out what the policy is.

How about she checks their website to make sure if doesn’t say anything to suggest it’s not allowed. Most businesses like this will publish such a policy on their website if they have one

It depends on the children. I would if they were sensible and you trusted them not to go to the water alone.

Dear lord, I can see why the current generation of kids are such a bunch of wet wipes by reading some of the comments on this thread. Your kids will be fine sat in a cafe for 30 minutes while you have a swim.

This has to be the most ridiculous suggestion yet.

Wow! I'm amazed at the amount of people who wouldnt leave two ten year olds alone to have breakfast in a cafe

Yes the primary justification is doing something I wanted to do. I don’t see a problem with that. I don’t think I am prioritising my needs over my children’s. They don’t have any unmet needs in this situation, and their needs would always come above mine. What I am doing is prioritising me, thought the thought came about when my son asked if he could go to the cafe, so they’re getting something positive from this too. I don’t see how my kids eating and drinking in a place they like while I spend half an hour (and less as winter comes around and with the forecasting the lake might freeze because it’s small and shallow) doing something I love is a bad thing.

I do everything for the boys. Pretty much all my time and money is spent on them. I’m a single parent with a limited support network so it is all on me. When one of them was was badly bullied a couple of ago I took him out of school used a significant amount of unpaid leave to help him heal and transition to home education, which has been another significant stress and time investment because now all of their education and socialisation is also down to just me. I say this with no resentment. It’s worth it and I’d do it all again and more for them because they deserve it. But it also means that I feel no guilt at all at the thought of putting myself first for half an hour a week, especially when putting myself first means them spending time in a cafe they enjoy. And I also think it’s useful for them to see me as a person who has a life outside of their wants and needs and doing something for myself. Not claiming that’s my primary motivation, but I think it would be good for them nonetheless.

Wondering how many 10 year olds randomly wander off into lakes when told to sit in a cafe 🤔

Unless there was significant sen need (which there doesn't seem to be) I would be concerned if a 10 year old didn't understand simple instructions of waiting in the cafe until mum returns. I would also be concerned if they didn't understand basic water safety at this age!

I think the poster who mentions making sure they know what to do if worried about anything is a good idea though.

My fairly recently turned 11 year old walked to a cafe to meet her friends for lunch the other day. I didn't realise I was using the cafe as childcare!

Moonnstarz could you be more patronising?😆

Why did you ask then? The results are not in your favour.

I think it's brilliant that you are teaching your sons that their mother is entitled to do things for herself.

They will have fun together in the cafe and you will be happier for having had some time to do something you enjoy. I don't see any downsides.

It’s September and I’m sure op could crack the window open a few inches. Boys of ten can open the door and pee on the back tyre. Op can leave hand gel in the car for hygiene

By that logic would we do the same for all businesses? Should I be asking at shops etc if my 10 year old is allowed in without me? Or would that, perhaps, be bonkers?

I am not sure what you mean?

A lot of people seem to be hysterical about leaving two 10 year olds thinking that they will enter the water, mum will drown or that they will be picked up by a paedophile.

I don't get the drama of it and really don't understand why a 10 year old wouldn't be able to follow instructions of staying in the cafe, unless like I said they had sen and might act impulsively or not see dangers.
Not sure what is so patronising about it?

To sort out her thoughts, double check someone wouldn't come with an issue she didn't consider in her original risk assessment, see if the idea can be improved?

And it worked, the phone in floater/watches got added to the plan.

The result is divided, which is ok. Now is on the OP to evaluate the reasons - for example the "not around the water" can be discounted due to managed access, "not allowed to leave under twelve" can be discounted as not true, "can't imagine leaving my 4 yo in 6 years" is considered - with the OP being ok leaving her acctual 10 yos...

Yes I wouldn’t ask, as it then sounds like you’re asking the cafe to take some responsibility for them. Enjoy your swim OP!