to leave ten year old twins in a cafe while I swim?

[justkeepswimminginalake]

I’m a single parent to ten year old twins and I was hoping to start open water swimming again. There’s a swimming lake near me which has an onsite cafe and I was thinking about leaving the boys in the cafe by themselves while I swim. We’ve been to the cafe a few times and it’s fairly chilled, mostly swimmers (and their friends/families), young families and old people. It’s also next door to the reception area for the swimming lakes so if they feel uncomfortable there’s somewhere else they can go.

Would I be unreasonable to order them breakfast and a drink and leave them there for half an hour while I swim. They’re generally pretty sensible and I’d pack Yotos with headphones, and some games and books for them to entertain themselves. There’s no one else who can take them.

In the summer I see young primary age kids go to cafés in parks and buy an ice cream and sit there eating it themselves. I am in London so I don’t know if it’s different here.

On the bright side, I feel like between the cotton wool parents and the parents who can't bear their kids to feel any disappointment or discomfort or have to solve any problems themselves at school, my kids are going to be at a significant advantage in an increasingly desperate scramble for work.

You said "I thought kids could not be left alone at home unsupervised under 12 now?" which is not true..

This whole discussion is crazy - they're 10 years old, about to start Year 6 - just a year off secondary school! Have other people's 10-year-olds seriously never been out with another 10-year-old to the park or to a cafe for a hot chocolate?!

I can’t see how it would be a problem for the cafe if it became a regular thing either.

But that's up to them, not you. You have no idea what liability issues they may have, what their insurance allows, etc. It's not a park, it's private property. You need to ask them if they will allow this instead of assuming.

Again, if they're fine with it, and you're fine with it, then you don't have a problem, but you need to actually ask them the question.

Yes, it’s just not the same. I would be happy to do it if I thought it were much safer for them or me but I really don’t think it would be.

Well done for making a sensible decision and wading through hundreds of responses!

Don't ask the cafe owner as that does make it seem like you are asking them to provide some supervision. Also don't ask because there is no need, they won't be supervising your kids, they are customers as much as any other. They will assume you are contactable, no one will think anything of it.

These big milestone decisions are so hard aren't they, especially when it's just you making it. They'll be fine, it's a well though out plan and I hope you enjoy your swim

I don't see a problem with this at all. I think they would enjoy the little bit of independence! They will be occupied, they have company and they know exactly where their mum will be - who has also said she will be visible. 30 mins will fly by.

You could go in for 20 mins at first, see how things go then extend it again in the following weeks.

Don't feel like a terrible mother due to some of the responses on here. You can't keep them wrapped in cotton wool forever and very shortly they'll be attending high school.

Enjoy your swim, OP.

Ah fair play! ❤️

Why? Places generally put up signs with rules. If they don’t you you generally assume you can be a customer unless told otherwise.

when I go into a cafe I don’t ask if I am allowed to unless it’s somewhere where you wait to be seated in which case I ask if I can have a table

I’ve explained why I’m torn on asking the cafe. We’ll see how it goes this weekend and take it from there. I’ll probably say something like they want to sit on their own so I’ll be just outside and then I’ll be able to see how they feel about that level of distance before bringing up swimming.

This is a very positive way, and correct, of considering this batshit thread. Although, more sensible people have arrived latterly. I wonder if they’ll go with their 18year olds to the job interview and take their sons with them to the ladies.

Two ten years old could walk in on their own and order. How is this different?

Asking would inevitably sound as asking for keeping an eye on them, which is the oppposite of the intention.

But the context of the OP’s question isn’t about developing a child’s independence. That’s become a secondary discussion (or justification). The OP’s concern is leaving her kids in cafe to swim outdoors. The fact she’s asking about means she’s knows it’s potentially problematic. She’s not doing it with the primary goal (or maybe any goal) of fostering independence (totally agree with that, but not in this situation).

She needs to speak to the cafe. Otherwise she’s prioritizing her needs over both that of kids and a cafe. If that’s horribly judgmental … too bad.

Honestly I wouldn't overplay it. Just say your kids love the cafe, is there a minimum age for patrons to come by themselves.

I wouldn't even ask tbh. You're maintaining responsibility for your children and have assessed the risks and determined this is appropriate for their age and skills.

Because it's their property and their business. If, for whatever reason, they don't allow unaccompanied children and someone doesn't like that, then that person simply doesn't use that business. You are free to disagree with a businesses policies, but that doesn't mean they don't apply to you.

Why shouldn't she prioritise her own needs sometimes?

At 10 years old id leave them at home.

Most cafes allow customers of all ages though, it would be odd not to. I guess there may be a few that have had issues with groups of kids making a mess etc., and in those cases I guess they'd do what some sweet shops do and put up a sign saying no unsupervised children.

You're inventing business policies for a cafe you've presumably never been to, or could even locate on a map!

If it was me, id not say anything. It's nothing to do with anyone else. Let your boys know if there was a problem to text you so you know to come back. Im sure your twins will sit and behave and not draw attention to themselves - all will be fine

just remember not to choke on a car driving into the lake & have a great swim

I don't understand why the cafe needs to be involved. I think if she talks to them it sounds like she is seeking their approval and wants them to supervise. Unless there was already an established relationship (regulars to the cafe, know the staff) I wouldn't mention it.
As far as they are concerned you have two paying customers. If OP is buying them cake or breakfast that might even be better than some who might turn up and drag out one coffee over an hour. I doubt they will have any interest in the boys (unless they did something to cause concern but from what OP says they sound sensible).

It would be just as devastating if they were at home with a babysitter surely

I would not ask. Because 10 is far too old to need childcare. You have been scared by some of the OTT responses on here. I have been on mumsnet nearly 20 years and in that time I have posted 3 times my own problem - each time I have had some very extreme responses which you have to learn to ignore. It’s the World Wide Web, millions of people, always going to be some extreme responses, plus you never know the intent of responders - are they just having a giggle for some bizarre reason.

I've read your update. It all sounds absolutely fine. Go for it! You deserve to have time for yourself and your hobbies and you've found a way to make it work.

I think this is ok, in year 6 my children started going out with friends to parks and cafes. They will be starting high school in 12 months time so need to start doing things on their own surely

I think it’s fine really. When DD1 had swimming lessons, there were quite a few siblings of that age in the cafe reading or on a tablet while parent was poolside for lesson or helping in the changing rooms. Surprised the initial reaction was so strong but I do think the first couple of replies always set the tone and everyone just jumps in to agree until one brave soldier comes in with the ‘well actually…’