To think some online dating SA victims need to take more responsibility for their choices?

[Iatethelastbiscuit]

Last night I watched a bbc documentary about the high number of sexual assaults that occur on dates from app dating sites like Tinder. It’s horrific obviously and I’m not victim blaming here but some of these young women will chat to a guy for a few days then invite him over to their house or go to his house for a date. In the doc there was a lot of talk about how apps can keep women safe (annoyingly they kept saying “keep people safe” when we all know it’s women who are at risk), suggesting the apps do stuff like age verification and run background checks on every member. Never once was it mentioned that it might be a good idea if women took a bit of responsibility for their own safety. Eg. Some basic safety tips like meet in a public place, don’t invite a total stranger over to your house etc. The fact that all the women who were sexually assaulted in this doc had done this was quietly ignored. Are people so paranoid of looking like they’re victim-blaming these days that they’re ignoring the most basic safety rules?! No it’s not a woman’s fault if she’s assaulted but young women need to be learning how to stay safe. There will always be predators out there, that’s not going to magically change if an app brings in background checks (which won’t make a difference for most anyway). Women need to learn how to stay safe and the bbc needs to not be so woke that they’re too afraid to give women safety tips for fear of looking like they’re victim blaming!!

I do agree that the title of the thread is horrendously phrased, but it doesn't seem that OP intended it to come across that way from everything else she's said.

It doesn't matter where I hail from or what is or is not normal. No woman is ever to blame for a man forcing her to have sex with him against her will. It doesn't matter if they are married, have known each other for a decade, have known each other for 10 minutes. IT NEVER MATTERS. Rape is a crime and women are not to blame for it, not responsible for it - ever.

Thread title is disgusting and you’ve lost my respect entirely for it, OP.

Also, a woman could meet a man in a park for the first date, a pub for the second and he could then assault her in her own home on the third. Spoken from experience. So frankly you can p!ss right off with all of this.

Of course I am. I was at someone’s house (where I had been several times) and he plied me with vodka. I had never had alcohol.

I wasn’t stupid. I should of course have left and it might not have happened.

As excessive drinking and going to someone’s house is seen as a bad idea, then logically I didn’t take sufficient care of my safety. The fact I was 15 of course doesn’t matter.

But I didn’t take enough care and it happened.

Explaining about being cautious about scams, mugging, rape etc. is fine.

The difference is that a scam or mugging victim elicits sympathy with no caveat but still a rape victim gets judged by the circumstances in which it happened

You are more charitable than me because the whole op was horrendous in my opinion, with some subsequent back tracking. Saying “I’m not victim blaming but…” doesn’t change that for me.

Perhaps @Iatethelastbiscuit needs to ask MN to change the title because me, and others, find it very disturbing!

Sadly I think your police area was in the minority but I’m really heartened at how they dealt with it.

I don't blame the woman, as a casual onlooker, but I imagine if I was her daughter then I quite possibly would blame her - secondarily of course to the actual rapist.

I do think that this casual hook-up culture of inviting total strangers into your home to get naked needs to be discouraged - it's so incredibly unsafe.

In addition to having experienced coerced sex (rape) myself a few times during such hook-ups as a teenager when I had very poor boundaries/self-esteem, I have heard so many stories over the years where friends of mine have felt like they had to have sex with the guy despite not wanting to, for fear of him kicking off and forcibly raping them, or had to give him a blow job to get rid of him without trouble, and yet they don't seem to realise how horrendous that is. They just shrug it off, and will take the same risk again a month later.

You forgot: being drunk or intoxicated in any way invalidates consent.

Honestly (and this is just the impression I get off a few comments online, so probably not worth much) it sounds more like you blame yourself, and want others to validate that blame. But you weren't to blame. You were a child, for god's sake.

I don't think that's true though, in regards to blame. I've seen people blame mugging/scam victims plenty of times, with comments like, "You shouldn't have been out so late", "you shouldn't have walked through that part of town", "you should've got a taxi instead of walking", and for scams, "What are you, fucking stupid? It was obviously a scam!"

I think it's strange, irresponsible parenting to teach your children how to avoid things like drink spikings, physical violence such as muggings, or scams, and not to teach them to be as safe as possible when it comes to sexual violence.

I think you're being unfair, because OP never said the women are foolish. You keep quoting that word which implies she said that.

I DO blame myself.

Of course it’s important to teach people safety measures against any risk.

But there is still a sense that people think it won’t happen to them if they are sensible (and if it does it’s not their fault as they did their best) and whilst they are sympathetic to the victims who didn’t do all they could to avoid it, there’s a slight note of judgement.

If you think that people don’t judge my circumstances, a look through this thread should clarify that they do.

I didn’t imply the OP used it. Several posters have used the word throughout the thread. Hence my use of it.

As for unfair - it’s unfair that people think that not taking sufficient care means that the these things are bound to happen.

It does because where you hail from you think it’s normal for a woman to meet a strange man on a night out, bring him to her home she shares with her young daughter and unfortunately this man turned out to be a rapist.

so it’s sadly your view point that you think this is not only okay but it’s not the mothers fault. Where I hail from, I disagree, I blame the mother fully.

And stalking, as you’ve shown them where you live.

So I should then presume that you blame everyone who is raped who could've chosen differently, as you blame yourself? After all how can you blame yourself, and not other victims? So you're one of the people judging.

Although I don't see anything on this thread (admittedly, I can't recall every single comment) that would suggest a 15-year-old girl is ever in any way to blame for being raped by someone she knows.

And ultimately, no one is to blame except the rapist.

@ThisOliveKoala at no point have I ever said what I think is normal or not. My opinion about 'normalness' is neither here nor there.

I believe that the crime of rape is NEVER the woman's fault. It is a crime against a woman by a criminal. The man who commits the crime is to blame. No one else. No woman is ever responsible for the criminal actions that someone else takes against her.

There it is!

Well done for having the nerve to admit you blame the victim fully for being attacked.

Take the child out of the equation and many many people have done the same thing over the years, particularly when teens.

At least you have had the nerve to show your contempt for the ‘wrong type’ of rape victims. Most of the people on this thread imply they think similarly but don’t want to actually admit it.

I missed the last part, my apologies. I never spoke of letting the rapist go free, of course the rapist should the charged, but it is the mothers fault.

There is an ongoing case in America, poor little girl, Madeline Soto, raped over years and killed by her mums boyfriend.

The mother allowed them to sleep in the same room for years and she would sleep downstairs. Again I blame the woman here, the mother is diabolical and it makes me mad she’s not been charged.

The man rightly is being charged, but from your pov the mother is innocent?

Women should know that some men are monsters and should keep themselves and their children safe as possible.

Failing in basic risk assessment is insane.

I would blame the mother in this situation for bringing any strange man back to her home for consensual sex with her child at home. That’s being a shitty parent. But it is still NOT her fault that she got raped.

No I judge myself. And it looks like I’m right to. I knew if I spoke up I would be blamed for what happened. I was a fucked up 15yo, I internalised that.

I don’t blame anyone who is raped, regardless of the circumstances. I don’t care what care they took, they are 100% the victims and they don’t deserve it.

And yet we have someone finally admitting that a woman taking a man back to her home and being raped was completely to blame for it.

I blame her fully, because you bring a stranger into your home that you met at night, put your daughter in harms way and yourself.

I am proud to say my mother nor any women in my family would do such, I would never.

Again maybe it works for you, but certain behaviours come with too high of a cost, the risk it too great and I would rather put the responsibility on myself to keep my children safe than a random man I met on a night out.

So yes I judge differently, but that’s me and my opinion.

@ThisOliveKoala women are most at risk from the men they know - it is true. They are more likely to be murdered, beaten, raped, assaulted and attacked by the men that they know - their fathers, their husbands, their partners, their brothers. That is not the fault of the women. It is the fault of the men who do the murdering, beaten, raping, assaulting and attacking. ALWAYS.

So what exactly are you blaming her for, if not for being raped? Putting herself at risk? How is that not blaming her for what then happened?

So many missing the point of the OP.

So many women do not engage common sense when meeting up with men. We have a spyhole in the front door and Ring doorbell cameras for security, but happily invite a stranger into our living rooms, in the romantic hope it will lead to a fairytale ending. Pathetic, really.

So just to clarify, it was her fault she was raped?

Do you not realise that people can take all the precautions they want but it can still happen?

You don’t know that no woman in your family would do that unless they wouldn’t be allowed by circumstance or religion.

What if you are right but a small lapse of judgement causes someone to take their eye off the ball ? Is any consequential attack something they just have to accept?