To think some online dating SA victims need to take more responsibility for their choices?

[Iatethelastbiscuit]

Last night I watched a bbc documentary about the high number of sexual assaults that occur on dates from app dating sites like Tinder. It’s horrific obviously and I’m not victim blaming here but some of these young women will chat to a guy for a few days then invite him over to their house or go to his house for a date. In the doc there was a lot of talk about how apps can keep women safe (annoyingly they kept saying “keep people safe” when we all know it’s women who are at risk), suggesting the apps do stuff like age verification and run background checks on every member. Never once was it mentioned that it might be a good idea if women took a bit of responsibility for their own safety. Eg. Some basic safety tips like meet in a public place, don’t invite a total stranger over to your house etc. The fact that all the women who were sexually assaulted in this doc had done this was quietly ignored. Are people so paranoid of looking like they’re victim-blaming these days that they’re ignoring the most basic safety rules?! No it’s not a woman’s fault if she’s assaulted but young women need to be learning how to stay safe. There will always be predators out there, that’s not going to magically change if an app brings in background checks (which won’t make a difference for most anyway). Women need to learn how to stay safe and the bbc needs to not be so woke that they’re too afraid to give women safety tips for fear of looking like they’re victim blaming!!

@Paganpentacle of course we all have to take personal responsibility for our own existence in this world.

There is a difference between being responsible and accepting responsibility for having been raped / attacked / murdered / assaulted because our behaviour was not "safe enough".

The differentiation here is important because as long as women are seen to have to be responsible for behaving safely / anticipating rapey / attacky / murdeours / assaulting behaviour, we are not holding the perpetrator of the crime fully responsible for their actions.

Yes, it probably is.
Can you point out where I have done any of those things?

@MargoLivebetter I don’t think that’s true. Prison sentences are there for rape but we know the difficulties of getting a conviction and the reasons for it. We need to look after ourselves!

I suppose I would see this post as saying that.

I'm so sorry, I've typed quite a lot of posts on this thread. I'm not sure what is not true!?

Yep.
Unreachable .I may as well bang my head off a brick wall.
I'm not wasting any more time on someone who assumes, lectures and puts words in other peoples mouths.

I teach my daughters to take all the necessary precautions you mentioned because sadly the world is not a safe place. I would like to tell them to go out, have a great time and not worry because the responsibllility is on men to mot sexually assault. However the reality is I want to protect them as much as possible from situations where they could be sexually assaulted and cannot trust all men. Would people describe that as victim blaming? I can see the OPs point.

@user1471497170 I don't think telling someone how best to avoid risk is victim blaming.

Telling someone that they didn't behave safely enough or were not responsible enough after they have been raped / assaulted / attacked / abducted - that is sharing the blame of a crime on a victim and I would see that as victim blaming.

I teach my daughters to take all the necessary precautions you mentioned because sadly the world is not a safe place. I would like to tell them to go out, have a great time and not worry because the responsibllility is on men to not sexually assault. However the reality is I want to protect them as much as possible from situations where they could be sexually assaulted and cannot trust all men. Would people describe that as victim blaming? I can see the OPs point.

And how would you react if something happened and they hadn’t taken all the precautions you drummed into them?

But that doesn't mean you can't minimise risk where possible.

And how do we do that? Just how on earth do women minimise the risk? The risk is always there.

From Rape Crisis UK…

Myth #12

Women shouldn’t go out alone at night if they don’t want to be raped
The facts: in 86% of rape cases against women, the victim or survivor is raped by someone she knows – and, in 45% of cases, she is raped by a partner or ex-partner. So, if we’re following the ‘shouldn’t go out alone at night’ logic, should we also tell women to stop having relationships with men? Or to never talk to a man again? Of course not. It’s rapists who need to change their behaviour, not women. (My italics).

The kind of men who sexually assault women will still do it with a woman who takes time to know him before being alone. These men are usually very charming too and as much as we like to think we'd spot one, we can't. So if we're putting this on the women to keep themselves safe, should they just never be alone with a man and deprive themselves of building a private relationship with them? Sexual assault can happen within a sexual relationship, consent is specific to the act and the time, so we're not immune to being sexually assaulted once we enter into a sexual relationship.

The only people who need to take responsibility for sexual assault are the perpetrators.

These don't have the same social- emotional context as relationships so not really a good analogy.

I think women who go to strange men's houses, or invite strange men to theirs, are incredibly foolish, but rape happens because a man decides to rape. He can do that at any point in a relationship, and if hes a rapist, he likely will. He should not get a lighter punishment just because the victim made a bad choice.

While I 100% agree with you. It is also unrealistic expectation to expect all men to not SA. Men should be taught. Even if we taught all men and they actually learned. There will always be the exception. Unfortunately. Otherwise there would be no crimes in the world if we could teach all people to be good. Humans are flawed. Men are disgusting (not all). Therefore, when it comes to a situation where you are engaging with a person which will most likely be biologically stronger then you and is a stranger. It just makes sense to teach woman to take precautions. Until men can be taught we can't live in a world of expectation where it is not being met. We have to live in a world of realism. Where the truth remains women are at risk of potentially not being safe in these types of situations and should proceed with caution. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

The default setting is for men not to attack women and most don't. However, it's stupid to leave your safety in the hands of others. Like, you wouldn't leave your front door unlocked or leave a wad of cash on your car seat, even though you should be able to.

A healthy distrust of everyone and everything is something that should be encouraged, especially as so many people are being scammed and duped. Let alone, trusting a strange man in your home.

I didn't read as the OP saying abuse victims are responsible for assaults, obviously the person assaulting them is responsible. At the same time we can be responsible for our own safety by making sensible decisions. Doesn't mean it's ok to rape someone but like someone said earlier we lock our cars and houses and don't say we don't have to because people shouldn't steal. Of course we will all make our own decisions, I was walking the dog late last night down a narrow dark lane, not very sensible but I've got used to the light nights. I need to reset my route or times for walks. It wouldn't have been my fault if I'd been attacked but it still wasn't very sensible. I did the walk a bit earlier tonight

Whatever the victim has done shouldn't excuse the attacker and shouldn't reduce a prison sentence.

Do people really think the problem is that these men were just never told not to SA women? 🤣

There are bad people out there that do not care about the rules. It's not as if most criminals were just confused and broke the law by mistake lol.

If you are meeting someone for the first time it's not a relationship.

Fully agree on that.

@theignT, so if you had been sexually assaulted out walking your dog at night, would you expect someone to accuse you of failing to take responsibility for your choices?

I agree with your POV. Yes men should be taught not to rape but its bloody reckless to invite any stranger of whatever gender or persuasion to your house if it is the first time youve ever clapped eyes on them.

If it were as simple as teaching men not to rape, I'm confident it would have been done by now. Same thing goes for murder and every other violent crime out there. The problem is that people know what they are doing is wrong and they simply do not care. You can't convince all people to be good and decent, unfortunately.

People can call it victim blaming if they like, but the fact remains that sometimes our common sense is the only thing standing between us and a nasty situation. That's not saying that you can't follow all the best practices and still end up in a horrible spot, but it's foolish and disempowering to pretend that there's nothing we can do to protect ourselves much of the time.