AIBU to think friend’s question was fair?

[Luluandkirk]

Last night I went to a languages night at a local bar (everyone wears tags with what languages you speak so you can practice & socialise).

My friend and I ended up chatting to 2 guys from Qatar who were just in the bar, not for the language night. So asked what languages they speak and they said Arabic and then said we are Muslim. My friend asked if they were practicing Muslims and one of the guys asked why. My friend kind of dodged a reply and tried to change the subject but he asked why she asked if they were practicing and persisted on the question. My friend said something like ‘oh I just wondered because you are drinking’ (alcohol)

He got really offended so I tried to back my friend up and said that well I was raised catholic but I’m no longer practicing, some people aren’t. The conversation moved on and it was all friendly in the end.

AIBU to think that while the awkward moment probably could’ve been avoided, my friend was just asking questions to get to know them? To clarify, she was absolutely not judging them for drinking but they were in fact drinking so it was a fair enough question. Not everyone raised in a religion do practice it continually and that is perfectly fine. As I said we continued chatting and it was all friendly but I think it played on her mind a bit.

Wow, are people really so rude?

I know plenty of Christians who don't necessarily adhere to every aspect of the Bible's teaching. It would never occur to me to question their faith. Whatever they do or don't do is between them and their God.

Likewise, I know plenty of Muslims who don't necessarily adhere to every aspect of the Quran's teaching. It doesn't occur to me to question their faith either. Whatever they do or don't do is again between them and their God.

As an atheist, I think all religious teachings are human creations in any case. Inevitably people will interpret the important aspects of their religions in different ways. E.g. some practising Catholics use contraception whereas others don't, and some practising Muslim women choose to cover their heads whereas others don't. It is not for me to judge the extent to which they are complying with their own interpretation of their faith, and it would be incredibly rude and disrespectful for me to try to impose my stereotypical views of a particular faith on them.

To ask a complete stranger?

Of course it's rude. If they were drinking they are obviously going to think you're being sarcastic or whatever.

It's like asking someone "How's the diet going?" When you catch them eating a biscuit with a cup of tea.

It sounded a bit like she was calling them out if they were practicing for drinking. Like, oh, surely you shouldn't say you are if you're drinking alcohol? Idk I'm just guessing but if another Muslim said that it would probably be in a judgmental way. So that's why he took it like that.

It wasn't really a necessary question. They were Muslim and you could clearly see they drink. No comment needed to be made.

Sure, but do you actually think that a total stranger you’ve just met in a social setting designed to help you practice languages policing the extent to which you practice Islam is appropriate?

I wouldn't ask about someone's religion I had just met in a casual setting. Getting to know someone who's already a friend or a potential boyfriend on a date? Definitely okay to ask, then, in my view. But as you already saw they were drinking alcohol, it was fairly obvious that they're not strict adherents to all aspects of their religion. I wouldn't have asked.

The reaction was a bit over the top, though, and I'd have been eager to end the interaction afterwards.

I think I would avoid asking a direct question about someone's religion if I had only just met them

This is the issue really, although i disagree with this poster because I think people practice how they please. It's not a casual question she asked, it's suggesting judgement about the way they practice their religion, which they have probably encountered before. That's a big overstep for a chat in a bar, she was very rude. Who wants to get into the details of their personal beliefs with someone they just met?!

It’s got nothing to do with you or your friend why they are drinking alcohol.

I worked with some younger ones who were Muslim and practicing. But also lived in a different way their parents had been brought up, they went on nights out and drank alcohol. Although they hid that from their parents.

Maybe, like other religions, people want to loosen the rules a bit. I’m sure there are plenty of practicing Christian’s who wear different types of fabric at once.

I think it was an intrusive question and could have been perceived as a criticism. If someone told me they were X faith I would accept that information and leave it to them if they wanted to elaborate on whether they were devout, orthodox, liberal, lapsed etc.

It's intrusive and comes across as judgey because "Muslims don't drink".

Except some do. Some Jewish people don't keep kosher but still go to shul. Some Catholics use contraception and get divorced.

Asking the extent of someone's religious observance at first meeting is intrusive and inappropriate.

I’ve been asked if I’m a practicing catholic by a weirdo wanting to know if I used birth control. So. It the same.

You say your friend was not being judgmental but she knows Muslims typically don’t drink alcohol and decided to question someone who is essentially a stranger about it. I am perplexed so many on here can’t see that it as impolite. He wasn’t putting himself forward as “I’m a Muslim AMA”.

If he didn’t want to be asked questions about his faith why did he mention he was muslim? He introduced the topic into the conversation.

‘So asked what languages they speak and they said Arabic and then said we are Muslim.‘

It was the men's fault for saying they were Muslims.
It wasn't particularly relevant in the context.

Becuase some Muslims feel that they are asked about how they practice their faith more than other religions are. Also they may feel guilty about drinking. Who knows. They arent your kind of people I think

Not the same at all - the same would have been do you have sex before marriage or something along those lines.

Would you ask similar questions to Christians?

It wasn't exactly unreasonable, but as she had only just met these guys, it was probably venturing onto unsafe ground. Still, it passed off and was fine afterwards so no harm down.

Yes, this.
It leaves them the option of either saying they aren’t practicing at all, which is perhaps unlikely given they literally just described themselves as Muslim to her.
Or them saying yes, and leaving themselves open to criticism of their drinking. Lots of people flex the “rules” a bit when it comes to their religion, and asking someone you’ve just met exactly where they draw the line feels rather intrusive.

I agree with this.

I don't think it is. Do you go to the mosque is a different question to are you a practicing Muslim. One asks are you part of the traditional social conventions and the other asks are you a good Muslim.

It's not a terrible question but it isn't something I'd ask in the first conversation on meeting someone. Generally speaking when I've learned e.g. someone is Catholic but not practicing it's been because they told me, not because I asked.

There is another thread here why OP has been called to HR because she dealt with a colleague questioning her on why she doesn’t drink alcohol. Many of the responses say it was rude for that colleague to ask.

How is this any different? Why does them being Muslim mean they can be challenged about their choice to drink alcohol?

In the first, it was a male challenging a female on not drinking.

Here, it’s a female challenging a male on drinking.

I don’t get why people think the second is ok when the men weren’t doing anything that affected the women.

Hmm I think on balance it was mildly inappropriate. They probably thought she was going to debate whether them whether they should be drinking alcohol which was none of her business. I imagine it was unconscious from your friend but probably was digging in a bit much, and could be viewed as judgemental

My friend is Muslim. He drinks alcohol. He doesn’t eat pork. He goes to mosque occasionally. He considers himself Muslim. So he’s Muslim surely. All religions have people who follow more strictly than others. My friend considers herself Catholic. She’s divorced. (But it “doesn’t count” apparently as the wedding wasn’t in a church). She uses contraception. But she still considers herself Catholic. I don’t think either of my friends are any less the religion they say they are. They consider themselves the religion they are and that’s what matters.

I also think it's quite common for Catholics to describe themselves as non-practicing. I'm not sure that happens with Muslims, so he could just have been baffled as to what she meant.