Do you agree with school absence fines?

[Dreamyseptember]

I honestly don’t have a strong opinion either way. I work term time so I can only go away in the school holidays anyway, plus I’ve never been keen on mine missing school.

However, I can totally understand why for many people they want to go on holiday during term time. A family holiday can be a magical experience, visiting somewhere new, spending proper time together, experiencing new things, getting away from the daily grind. And for many this would be unaffordable in the school holidays. The other thing is that parents can’t always get the time off work.

I do think it’s important for children to attend school, I know they missing large chunks at school can mean them falling behind, miss out on learning as well as time with friends.

But tbh, I know people whose children missing large chunks school frequently anyway. Any sniffle, tired day, weather too hot or too cold and the parents are ringing them on sick. There are other children who attend 100% of the time and is one week away for a family holiday, possibly at a time of year when learning is wrapping up anyway, going to really make that much difference.

When I was at school in the 80s/90s it was quite normal for children to disappear for 2 weeks for a holiday abroad and no one batted an eyelid.

I’m sure that there are lots of arguments either way but do you think it’s right and fair that parents are fined for taking their children on holiday during term time?

Yabu - the fines are correct
Yanbu - it should be the parents decision

Which bit am I joking about?? Which jobs ONLY require people to work during school holidays? If people only have limited holidays surely it’s makes sense to book them during school holidays so you’re not losing a weeks holiday during term time and then trying to cover the school holidays too?

I just don’t think you’re getting it.

Some people can’t book their leave in the school holidays, and if they do they certainly can’t get the same week off.

This isn’t down to bad planning it can be down to employers/colleagues and the type of job you do.

My DH works shift patterns that are all pre-set so doesn’t get to choose his holiday. Next year none of it falls in the summer holidays, so we’ll probably just do a couple of nights away not too far.

Holidays don’t have to be during the summer holidays there are 6 other school holiday weeks to use. Easter and October half term are great times to go, cheaper, and less crowded. May half term is perfect too as the weather is heating up and again cheaper then August.

You don't have a right to certain weeks. It's not pick and choose your holiday for a lot of people working.

Forward planning doesn't create leave slots where none exist, nor does it stop companies from capping how many people can take off during peak school holidays. It’s not a lack of planning and honestly not that simple; it's a completely inflexible system. Some of my fondest childhood memories are family holidays, even if they were just in a caravan, I felt lucky to get to go away with my family. I wouldn't trade those family times for the world especially given how I lost a parent early. No amount of corporate planning lectures or school fines changes how valuable that time together is. Funnily enough a week off school at the end of term, when we weren't doing anything academic anyway, made no difference whatsoever.

And yours would be the exception to the rule where I could agree that a term time holiday is valuable. However the majority just want a cheaper holiday.

What a shoddy experience you had (and that is putting it midly). I’m sadly unsurprised to read it though. I also think it’s keeping up appearances for Ofsted is the only thing that is really cared about.

I always think of a lad, who was in my year throughout secondary school, when the whole attendance vs school attainment debate comes up. Unfortunately, he had a chronic illness and the treatment made him immunocompromised, so we wouldn’t see him for significant periods. He ended up getting some of the best GCSE results in our year group. I don’t think he was a one-off case either. I missed a lot of school during Year 9 thanks to planned surgery and a sudden death in the family. My SATs results were very good (all 7s).

So take your kids out and accept the fine then and try your best to catch up the bits of school
your child missed.

So take the holidays and accept the fine then!!

I am an ex teacher, now retired.
I worked in primary schools for over 30 years.

I believe that the imposition of the National Curriculum has completely soured children's experience at Primary.

It's narrow and generally boring with little emphasis upon sparking children's natural curiosity.

Limited Art and Music subjects- P.E. being squeezed out and intolerable pressure upon children and teachers to meet crazy targets.

Attendance is certainly an issue but I completely understand why parents take holiday time .

Ditch the stupid targets, including attendance ( which the teachers have no control over) and concentrate on getting back to making learning interesting and fun.

The Government needs to back off and let headteachers and staff go back to running the schools ( which they managed successfully before all this government interference.)
There is no need for fines.

I don’t personally need to.

But my question is what actually is the point of fines when they are evidently not making any difference to attendance whatsoever.

Ot seems as though it’s just a money making thing or a bad idea that hasn’t worked and no one will admit that it hasn’t worked.

You do realise that a lot of parents in England don't have a lot of choices? It's jo easy to say the things you do but real life can be much more complicated.

Oh don't worry. We relocated at Christmas to a country with much more easy going views on a week or two off school outside exams.

We have several families who have said they’ve been put off taking term time holidays because of the fines and potential criminal record.

We wouldn't! If a child is on holiday it is entirely their responsibility to catch up.

If a child completes the work they miss then I have no issue with them going on holiday. If they don't, the parents should be fined.

As I said take them out of school then and accept the fine.

I would agree with this.

It seems to me that most teachers just want to teach but their jobs are being made evermore difficult by impossible targets.

Of governments want to make the learning experience better for children then give schools more funding.

I think the many double standards, “school sanctioned” absence examples don’t help. In addition to school trips throughout the year, which many pupils don’t go on for various reasons, how about pupils that get released from afternoon lessons regularly at least 1 day a week, because they’re playing for the school [insert sport of choice] team? I saw @MermaidMummy06 mention this. That’ll be pupils from at least 2 schools missing lessons any time pupils are released from lessons for inter-schools fixtures. I can guarantee the reaction to this being brought up to someone so against parents taking their kids out of school during term-time would be no better than Vicky Pollard’s, “ yeah, but no, but…”
They’d always miss most of lesson 4 and 5 when I was at school.

On another note, I was quietly pleased to see @Whyarepeople acknowledged closing schools for months on end during the Rona years. I think that really undermined any notion of, “social contract” on this issue (and many others).

But isn’t it possible that those families just wouldn’t be the ones taking their children out anyway.

Some people just don’t like to break the rules and don’t want their children to miss school.

Since I started the thread I have found several pieces of evidence that are very clear that the fines have made zero difference to attendance. In fact attendance is at an all time low.

This is not a yes or no IMHO. I think it depends on:

Child's age

I think high school is a definite no for taking kids out of school. Anything under age 11 is debatable and based on circumstances.

Timing
Obviously kids (11 and under) should be in attendance at key times, SATs and other exams are essential and should be mandatory attendance.

Duration
This should be limited to one week per year per child maximum.

Attendance
Holidays in term time should not be permitted if the child has less than 95% attendance for any reason.

We did take our kids out of school twice when they were 5/7 and 6/8 for a few days in January, but they had 100% attendance and in those days it was permitted, so I'm not being hypocritical.

I don't think fines are the way to go because people factor it into the cost of the holiday, I think they should be reported for truancy if the parents fall foul of the rules.

Regardless of fines I don’t believe children should be taken out of school for holidays and no one will change my mind on that one! There is very little in the arsenal for preventing it and if you now stop the fines more people will see it as a green light to go ahead and take the children out of school.

I think the school closures really did undermine the social contract. I think many parents felt quite betrayed and let down.

People are waking up and thinking hang on, school can close for months, school can put on trips and residential for certain children only, school can close for snow days, heat waves, strikes, teacher training, children can miss lessons for school sporting events.

But parents are treated like criminals for wanting to take their own children on holiday and missing 2-5 days of school. We are told it will ruin their education. Something doesn’t add up.

This, and yes after covid a lot of people realised things aren't set in stone like we used to think.

So many children are let down by school system and out of education for weeks even years and we worry about children with a few weeks off. A lot of schools are a mess of noise, violence and substitute teachers and full of SEN children not fitting standard classes ruining it for other children. Bonkers to worry about children off for a few weeks extra a year.

Yes and just pay the fine

What percentage does unauthorized holidays make up of school absences? I'd imagine we are talking a small percentage.