Do you agree with school absence fines?

[Dreamyseptember]

I honestly don’t have a strong opinion either way. I work term time so I can only go away in the school holidays anyway, plus I’ve never been keen on mine missing school.

However, I can totally understand why for many people they want to go on holiday during term time. A family holiday can be a magical experience, visiting somewhere new, spending proper time together, experiencing new things, getting away from the daily grind. And for many this would be unaffordable in the school holidays. The other thing is that parents can’t always get the time off work.

I do think it’s important for children to attend school, I know they missing large chunks at school can mean them falling behind, miss out on learning as well as time with friends.

But tbh, I know people whose children missing large chunks school frequently anyway. Any sniffle, tired day, weather too hot or too cold and the parents are ringing them on sick. There are other children who attend 100% of the time and is one week away for a family holiday, possibly at a time of year when learning is wrapping up anyway, going to really make that much difference.

When I was at school in the 80s/90s it was quite normal for children to disappear for 2 weeks for a holiday abroad and no one batted an eyelid.

I’m sure that there are lots of arguments either way but do you think it’s right and fair that parents are fined for taking their children on holiday during term time?

Yabu - the fines are correct
Yanbu - it should be the parents decision

I think @Dreamyseptember means that a '3 strikes' rule (i.e 3 unexplained absence and the child is unenrolled) punishes children rather than helping them which, ostensibly, is what attendance encouragement via fines was implemented for.

Some parents may be deterred, others would try their luck and then insist the LA comply with their legal duty to provide children with an education, what I hope would be a minority wouldn't give a shit at all and would let their child stay at home/roam the streets. In the meantime, the kids are out of education, which doesn't help them at all.

Oh learning absolutely happens outside the classroom but not sure how a holiday by the pool constitutes learning?
You’ll never convince me that term time holidays are necessary!

Not all holidays are spent permanently sat around a pool though are they?

Most are. They majority of parents who we find take children out of school for holidays aren’t taking them on cultural trips to Egypt or sightseeing in South America they’re off to Spain to sit by the pool or on the beach.
And even if they were doing cultural things better to do it during the school holidays so children get their full education and their holidays!

Spain literally has thousands of years of world history, Roman ruins, and rich culture though, it's not just a blank wall by a pool. A family holiday doesn't have to be an expedition to Egypt to be worthwhile.

There is a lot to be said for a beach holiday abroad. Not everything has to be 100% educational value all of the time to be beneficial and worthwhile.

If that’s the only week your parents could get off work together for example, then it is very worthwhile.

Its not always about the educational value but the quality family time.

Personally my children have learnt quite a lot from pool holidays. Learning to navigate an airport, improving their swimming, learning to dive, making new friends often children from different nationalities to themselves, snorkling, waterspouts, learning a few simple words in another language.

These things can be hugely enriching to children’s lives and are real life experiences that you can’t get inside a classroom.

That's not to dismiss the amazing work that goes on in schools but there is a life outside the school gates and what I have realised is that critical thinking and thinking for yourselves/making your own decisions decisions not just blindly following rules for the sake of rules can hold you in good stead for real life.

Egypt was just an example pulled from the air!! In my personal experience (25 years) the majority of parents that take their child out of school for holidays are not doing any cultural learning activities. They’re chilling on the beach, by the pool and using the amusement arcades! Not once has a child or their parent told me of the wonderful learning opportunities they had or the museums or ruins they visited!!

And all of those critical thinking skills and airport navigation and all the other lovely things that happen on holiday should happen during the school holidays! No one is saying holidays aren’t important but are they more important than that week at school? I don’t believe so!

And so what. It might be good for a family just to spend time together. No need to judge.

No judging at all! They can spend time together on a school holiday holiday! Even a staycation at home is spending time together.

So easy to say. Isn't it.

I have said quite a few times that term time holidays should be avoided if possible. It’s not something that I have done myself, but I can see how there could be situations where a term time holiday is the only chance to go.

If it was the only time where both parents could get time off, or if it was the only way that the family could afford to all go. Families have all different circumstances. If you’ve got multiple children the cost difference can be enormous. It’s ok to just say save up etc but it could be a difference of thousands of pounds.

If it was as the difference between a family not being able to go on holiday at all then I think the holiday is worth it.

Sometimes people go at times when no learning is even taking place. Such as a few days before Christmas or the last few days before the Summer holidays start or after SATS.

What would you suggest if the parents work during school holidays?

A staycation is no good if your mum and dad can’t get the same week off together.

UK holidays are also crazy prices in the Summer too.

People I know who take term time holidays have continued to do this and pay pay the fines. They have not been put off as their reasons outway the penalty.

I disagree and thankfully are school dont give them, well not for taking a week or 2 for a holiday anyway. We take them out every year. Sometimes its a week, sometimes just a few days.

Are there any jobs that only require people to work during the school holidays? My Dad used to have to work car company shut downs which were usually last 2 weeks of July or first 2 weeks of August, we just booked holidays around that!

It’s not one kid missing 2 weeks of school, it’s 30+ kids missing school plus sick days on top plus sneaky extra days off then parents complain that their kids got behind. Kids have 13 weeks plus inset days to take holidays

The only situation I can recall that needs term time holidays are families with a parent in the armed forces. Possibly the emergency services too however I know people in the police and hospitals who just book their leave early.

Most full-time jobs aren't in car manufacturing plants with fixed two-week summer shutdowns though are they? The vast majority of working parents have standard year around jobs and don't get six weeks off in the summer just because the schools do. And then you have the logistics of the parents getting the same time off as each other too.

So you book the weeks in early! My DH works with someone who trots in on the first day back after Xmas with his holiday dates ready to book as he and his wife coordinate so they pay for as little holiday childcare as possible!

So taking children out during term time is giving them a bigger headache!! They’ve already lost a weeks holiday before they even start trying to cover the school holidays!! Needs a bit of forward planning!!

You are joking?

Yes, I do agree with them. A magical holiday to create memories (often the reason given) is the same holiday if taken during the 13 weeks school holidays each year. If cost is an issue and you don’t mind interrupting your child’s education, factor the fines into the money saved by going in term time.

There are a lot of people who would struggle to book a week of during the school holidays especially at the same time as each other.

Of course that’s not everyone, but my sil for example can only take leave in July and August every few years because it’s their busiest time and she has to alternate with colleagues.

Then there is the affordability. For some families they simply would not be able to afford a holiday.